[0.9] Paragon Paths

Kart

Newbie
Alliance Rules
I'd like to answer a couple of questions from a post much earlier. I've left out a couple that I wasn't comfortable answering yet.


Auraknife:

  1. Can the Active Ability "May expend a spell in memory to add 5x the spell level in damage to a single swing From Behind" be combined with any other ability such as an Assassinate? Yes

  2. The Active Ability provides cheap Elemental Silence powered by Back Attacks. Since it has to be "From Behind" does it need to conform to normal weapon attacks and need to hit a specific location defined on the back? If yes, I assume it is the responsibility of the Auraknife to inform their target not to take the effect if the Auraknife accidentally hits an arm or the target turns to block? Yes and Yes
  3. No fault found

  4. Could the Passive Ability be misused by Charming an NPC and getting them to recharge the Auraknife's Skills? Yes, however it’s not on the list of things they HAVE to do so they would have to convince the NPC to do so.

  5. Can the Auraknife activate the Passive Ability "Whenever a Dodge is used against an effect delivered with the Spell Qualifier, the Auraknife becomes Immune to that same effect when delivered with the Spell Qualifier for 10 minutes" with a Spell they cast on themselves? Do the rules for "From Behind" apply to the Active Ability "May expend an Assassinate to swing once for Spell Prison (if primary school is Celestial) or Spell Death (if primary school is Earth) From Behind", similar to the Level 2 Active Ability? Yes they could do it themselves but I don’t see a benefit from doing it that way. Yes, from behind like the power says.
Assassin

  1. No fault found

  2. "May expend any per-day Rogue Skill to change any single weapon swing From Behind to use the Poison qualifier." Same question as Auraknife 2 and 5. If the swing inadvertently hits something that does not fit the definition of "From Behind", does the effect still resolve on the target or, if not, is it the responsibility of the Assassin to inform the target not to take the effect? Yes

  3. Does the Passive Ability mean the "Cure Light Damage" Elixir now has double effect, effectively? i.e. Does the Passive Ability stack with a "Cure Light Damage" Elixir?

  4. May the Assassin use the Passive Ability in conjunction with the Assassin 2 Active Ability to swing for Elemental From Behind?


Champion of the Living

4. Does the use of the Active Ability "May expend any per-day Fighting Skill to touchcast a Spell Purify" also activate the Passive Ability "Character is affected by 5 Spell Healing as if touchcast and accepted whever they use a per-day Fighting Skill"? Also, more cheap Purifies. No expending and using are two different things, sorry we missed defining this on the intro packet.


Chemist (General Question: What is the definition of "Crafting Skill"? Is a "Crafting Skill" one that provides PP? yes

  1. For the Passive Ability "When using a Blast Glove, a Chemist may immediately throw a second packet of the same element at half damage", what is the definition of "immediately"? From the intro packet, "Some powers state that something can be done immediately after something else. In this case, the follow-up power must be performed within 3 seconds of the trigger"

  2. No fault found.

  3. For the Passive Ability "May use an Alchemy lab as a Create Trap lab and vice-versa (both may be used in the same Logistics period)", if you only crafting Alchemy, but have both labs, do you get the benefits of both labs (i.e. +10PP per Alchemy level)? You can only use one lab per logistics per crafting skill

  4. a)For the Passive Ability "When using any Alteration, Curse, Command, or Binding Globe, the chemist may use it as its respective curative (Alteration -> Antidote, Curse -> Cleanse, Command -> Awaken, Binding -> Release) instead of its normal effect" what is meant by the term "use"? Does that mean the Chemist may through the Globe as that curative effect (and therefore have the verbal of the curative)? Or does it mean when used on the Chemist? b)For the Active Ability (seems like an odd Active Ability since it isn't trading an expendable skill, but instead providing another "recipe"), may the Natural Armor be refit per normal or is it gone when damaged to 0? c)For the Per-Day Ability, are the 3 chosen Blast Globes or Trap Globes actual tags received or are they put onto the Battleboard as an actual "Per-Day" that does not carry-over to the next day? a)I don’t remember the intent but I think they throw it with the curative verbal, will have to get back to you on this. b) Yes, it’s just like any other natural armor. c) You get the tags

  5. Does the Per-Day Spellcraft count as a single Spellcraft or is it actually 2 separate Spellcrafts (1/d Spellcraft Poison Trigger and 1/day Spellcraft Poison Cache)? Do the two Spellcraft effects (if it is actually 2 separate Spellcrafts) need to be on the same weapon or can they be placed on different weapons? The same weapon

Disabler

  1. The Passive Ability "Access to Disabler only Create Trap recipe: Destruction Globes (20 pp)" are cheaper than the L2 Chemist version. Just noting it while also acknowledging the L2 Chemist gives 2 additional recipes.

  2. Does the Per-Day ability "1/day Increase the numeric value of one trap created that Logistics by 10" affect Gas Traps using Blast Globes? No, you don’t create the poison inside of a gas trap at logistics

Elementalist

  1. It seems odd to have the L1 Active Ability be dependent on the Elementalist L2 Passive Ability. We must of moved those around and missed this, we'll take a second look.

  2. No fault found.

  3. Is the Active Ability meant to be Enhanced Blade instead of Empowered Blade? I cannot find any Empowered Blade effects in the new rules. Probably, will have to get back to you

  4. For validation, can the Active Ability "May expend any memorized Evocation Bolt as if possessing the Counterspell ritual against an appropriate Evocation Bolt of the Attuned or Opposite Element" be used in combination with the L2 Active Ability? I suspect "no" because it states "memorized Evocation Bolt". Correct NO

  5. For the Active Ability, after being empowered to the Attuned Element, do Wand Charges count as "throwing an Elemental attack of the attuned element" to give the benefit described? If yes, I foresee a lot Ice Elementalists throwing "1 Elemental Ice! 40 Spell Stun Limb! 1 Elemental Ice! 40 Spell Stun Limb!"


 

jdackow

Adept
I would think this is part of the conversation at the owner level. but I was surprised to see the Paragon path are only for classes and not races. Is this something also in talks?
 
I would think this is part of the conversation at the owner level. but I was surprised to see the Paragon path are only for classes and not races. Is this something also in talks?
Unless I am misreading the document, I believe the classes listed in the master list are not required to take the paragon paths. I believe the pre-requisites are only the amount of xp spent in skills. This will generally map to specific classes, but, as people have noted, there is definitely the possibility of taking "out-of-class" paths. This is particularly true for the combo classes (scout, adept, templar) and for artisans (who will usually qualify for both artisan paths and at least set of pure class paths), but is potentially true for any character.

This doesn't really address your question, but I think this is misconception that needs to be cleared up.

-MS
 

jdackow

Adept
You are correct they are not classes specific but build on more of the idea of a class but still open to all. I was more thinking a Paragon of you race that would still be open to all but add more racially flavor by enhancing your racial abilities or adding in case of human. However this would not be on par with a greater of the race.
 

Gandian Ravenscroft

Knight
Chicago Staff
Marshal
However this would not be on par with a greater of the race.
As a reminder to you (and a clarification for others that may be thinking they missed something in the 0.9 release), the existence of "Greater Race" stuff is purely an LCO plot addition that relates to Chicago and at least one Michigan chapter, not a National concept that applies across the Alliance.
 

Tantarus

Squire
Reducing PC damage shouldn't change the damage output of the majority of NPCs in any way.
I didn't say NPCs would not be changing. I said NPC body points will drop, but damage should remain roughly the same.
as noted above, NPC damage should probably increase slightly to account for the increase in body / armor of PCs.
So I am told by people working on this, that damage is indeed dropping from npcs, where you guessing when you made these claims? Because there is alot of wasted replies and discussion as if this was really true.
 
So I am told by people working on this, that damage is indeed dropping from npcs, where you guessing when you made these claims? Because there is alot of wasted replies and discussion as if this was really true.
I made a conjecture based on good game theory. NPC damage dropping doesn't make much sense unless there is design goal that hasn't been elucidated to us. I can't speak for the veracity of your second hand information. If it is true, I'd love to see someone with direct knowledge say so and spell out at least the framework of the reasons why NPC damage is dropping. I can't remember where, but someone with direct knowledge did make a comment about NPC body dropping somewhere on this board (which makes total sense) and I'd like to see similar transparency if your comments about NPC damage are true.

-MS
 

A.mungo

Artisan
Marshal
I made a conjecture based on good game theory. NPC damage dropping doesn't make much sense unless there is design goal that hasn't been elucidated to us. I can't speak for the veracity of your second hand information. If it is true, I'd love to see someone with direct knowledge say so and spell out at least the framework of the reasons why NPC damage is dropping. I can't remember where, but someone with direct knowledge did make a comment about NPC body dropping somewhere on this board (which makes total sense) and I'd like to see similar transparency if your comments about NPC damage are true.

-MS
We received a number of soft guidelines from ARC on how to proceed with the 2.0 monster database change. One of them specifically was the following

"2. Monster static damage should similarly go down a little. We don't expect as much of a drop here, but Skill-based monsters especially should be affected by the "constant vs burst" paradigm shift like PCs are."

which currently has translated into the following

Prof/Backstab reduction across the board according to the following formula
1-3 - No change
4-6 -1
7-8 -2
8+ -3

after revisions there are 6 cards (of 255) in the database that can swing a one handed weapon for greater than 10 static damage (which was the conversation on the other thread referenced).


To everyone:
The standard database should not be used as a tool for measurement, as it will vary greatly from chapter to chapter. We can write 1000 monsters with varying degrees of "danger", but every campaign will tailor their cards to the needs of their chapter. Due to this, I continue to stress, look at how the rules affect Player interaction with other players, and what a resources a player has access to for their character (production, craftsman, etc.), not their interaction with the dangers of the world around them as that will change based upon the plot team running them (also trust your plot team, as we have heard many times before).

The goal is to determine if these interactions will cause holds to clarify, cause other parts of the system to not function properly, or alternatively give a great advantage to one type of character over the others. I personally believe that the Paragon packages greatly benefit Scholars and Rogues, but in my opinion so does the entire system. Due to this it doesn't seem out of line with what is being put forward elsewhere. Again, it is just my opinion, and others may see it differently. None of it actually matters unless you can convince your owner to create a change.

I cannot stress the following enough: Talk about things here, seek clarification, and then message your owner with your suggestions. Don't get caught up arguing minutia with others whose opinions are different than yours and whom are unlikely to see things your way do to the fact that your local games are played differently. We are all playing the same hobby, and getting in arguments with others who don't have control over how the game is played about how you feel the game should be played is just an effort in frustration and can cause not just hurt feelings, but can push others away from participating. I think it is good to state your opinions, explain why you think what you think based upon your experiences, and to ask questions, but we should strive to understand that the game is played differently almost in every single chapter (Oregon and Seattle are right next to each other and have greatly differing games, SF has a lot of unique aspects that add to their players experiences, XR is mod city, Gettysburg has historically had a nightly unscaled event (this whole season is unscaled there!!), Deadlands has/had foes out there completely resistant to magic, Calendonia is the deadliest game in the alliance (is the rumor going around ;) ), Denver has nobles everywhere!!(Barons, and Lords, and Knights oh my!)). Point is, we are all playing a combined rule system with similar agreed upon effects, though we are each playing our own version of that game. Please keep that in mind, no one is right or wrong (unless you don't like Swarm [then you are right, IMO :)], it is ultimately about the better player experience.
 

Avaran

Baron
after revisions there are 6 cards (of 255) in the database that can swing a one handed weapon for greater than 10 static damage (which was the conversation on the other thread referenced).
This only further strengthens my reservations about the Weakness effect and the ability for PC's to use it an inordinate amount of times each day. It will be incongruously effective for such a low-level spell, I think, and that needs to be addressed by the appropriate group/person.

If it's too widely available, you may as well just add +5 everywhere and let PC's use it and the NPC's take the effect. Or, you take the other approach, and start putting defenses against Weakness (A Curse) which in turn impacts other, higher level spells; then you're almost forced into a situation where you're throwing your 5 or 10 Weakness spells/effects, then once those defenses are gone, you can throw your Deaths and your Paralysis and other take-out effects. Or you just put an outright immunity to Weakness specifically. Either way, plot has to adjust.

And with damage going down and everything, really feels like fights with no take-out effects used are going to last a really silly amount of time. Especially with the abundance of healing that will be available to both PC's and NPC's.

after revisions there are 6 cards (of 255) in the database
Is it still an Access database?
 
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A.mungo

Artisan
Marshal
Is it still an Access database?
It isn't publicly available for obvious reasons, but we are working on a SQL version to be able to be used online and later trying to figure out an offline component as well (though putting the data into and using the old database might also be a secondary option for print on demand. The goal being to get away from the chapters being forced to purchase liscenses to run.
 
Hey everyone, I'm hoping I can get some clarification for some questions I have about the specialist paragon path. The answer to these are probably obvious, I am just a relatively new player, and don't have the game down pat.

For the level one passive ability, it says I treat carrier attacks from my specialist school as normal. I think that means that I basically ignore the effect if it's with a weapon strike, but not from a spell, am I right?

What is the difference between a cloak, and I spell crafted cloak?

And I'm simply not clear what the level five passive ability means. Could someone offer an explanation?


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Avaran

Baron
For the level one passive ability, it says I treat carrier attacks from my specialist school as normal. I think that means that I basically ignore the effect if it's with a weapon strike, but not from a spell, am I right?
That is correct.

What is the difference between a cloak, and I spell crafted cloak?
No difference in function (it still negates the effect of its associated effect group). The difference is in how you acquire the Cloak ability (example: spell craft vs High Magic).

And I'm simply not clear what the level five passive ability means. Could someone offer an explanation?
Can't answer this one with any certainty. Someone else will have to do so.
 

ASFDan

Scholar
The level five passive for specialist effectively lowers the spell level for your specialist school by one- that is, for example, if you were a Curse specialist you could memorize Weakness at level 2 or 3, Silence at 4 or 5, Destruction at 6 or 7, Paralysis at 7 or 8, and Death at 8 or 9. For the Spell Store ritual the spell would count as its original level regardless of which level you memorized it at (presumably for ease of accounting- "no no, that was a level 2 Specialist Weakness I put in there, not a level 3 one", etc).
 
Thank you for clearing that up! However, the level 5 passive still is unclear to me. It says I may memorize spells in a spell slot lower than normal, in addition to their normal level. So if, say, I memorized a pin at level 2 (the normal level I believe), does that mean I get a "level 1" pin in ADDITION to the normal pin?


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ASFDan

Scholar
You don't get additional bonus spells, but you can use slots at either level to memorize spells from your specialist school, so a level 3 specialist spell could be memorized using either a level 2 or level 3 spell slot. The benefit is that you can more easily focus on your specialist spells and don't have as many levels without specialist spells. Using curse as an example, any earth caster can memorize curses at level 3, 5, 7, 8, and 9. A curse specialist, however, could memorize them at 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9 if they were so inclined.
 

Kart

Newbie
Alliance Rules
Chemist
4.a)For the Passive Ability "When using any Alteration, Curse, Command, or Binding Globe, the chemist may use it as its respective curative (Alteration -> Antidote, Curse -> Cleanse, Command -> Awaken, Binding -> Release) instead of its normal effect" what is meant by the term "use"? Does that mean the Chemist may through the Globe as that curative effect (and therefore have the verbal of the curative)? Or does it mean when used on the Chemist? Confirmed you do throw the Curative, "Antidote gas poison"

Elementalist
  1. It seems odd to have the L1 Active Ability be dependent on the Elementalist L2 Passive Ability. Move L2 Passive to Level one.
3. Is the Active Ability meant to be Enhanced Blade instead of Empowered Blade? I cannot find any Empowered Blade effects in the new rules. yes
 
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