Ages - common knowledge or FOIG?
- Thread starter James Trotta
- Start date
Alavatar
Baron
Ezri said:
Not the off-season here.
Just went to a LARP event a week and a half ago and have another game in about two and a half weeks.And I'm not saying it is broken from a rules perspective. It's not like the age of a race in relation to the age of the player is going to give any in-game advantages or anything. I am saying from an RP-story-involvement perspective it doesn't make sense.
In PnP games, long lived races can easily make sense. In a LARP that is supposed to last over a long period of time (a decade or more), races that age differently from humans don't make sense because the players (who are human) are not aging at the same rate as their characters (that are not human). Therefore, it strains belief in the story.
All of my arguments are just my opinion, though. Results may vary.
Dreamingfurther
Baron
I honestly think that while this can be somewhat "difficult" it is one of the things you just have to deal with in a fantasy game. If you wanted a game where all the characters aged the same rate as the players then you would need to play a world with just humans. You can "come up with reasons" either one way or another to justify both sides of the arguments you guys have just posted Michelle and Alavatar.
Personally though I feel like it is more fun to have something set up that gives players a chance to RP ages and different maturity rates for different races as they wish rather than "requiring" all characters to age at the rate that the players do.
Personally though I feel like it is more fun to have something set up that gives players a chance to RP ages and different maturity rates for different races as they wish rather than "requiring" all characters to age at the rate that the players do.
Gunnar
Squire
Alavatar,
So I attempted to place your quotes in via the message board option, and it came out as gobbeldy gook. So I think I grabbed everything in reference to what you had said - if not please let me know.
Short lived races can also be patient. Look at the Japanese culture.
In refering to Japanese culture, yes, people can be patient, but looking around, that's not the norm. Plus, Japanese still live on a normal human lifespan. I'm more refering to the fact wherein depending on the chapter, Orcs, Wilderkin or others live a maxout of maybe 25 years maximum. Most of the short lived races I've run into reflect that perspective of needing to learn quickly, because they won't survive otherwise. Its built into their fantasy culture. Alternately, while short lived races -can- absolutely be patient in our game, its more the exception, and not the majority, at least from what I've experienced in the last 10 years, give or take.
If the longer lived races have the patience to perfect their abilities then why aren't the average elven/biata/mwe soldiers/wizards/rogues/healers on a level high above high orc/high ogre/wylderkin/human/hobling/etc. of the same profession?
Because the class abilities are based on OOG dynamics of build spending and XP earned, to keep the game fair.
Granted, a player playing a longer lived race could have had a profession before becoming an adventurer or whatever. But unless every member of those long lived races has multiple professions each it does not explain why an elf that is 800 years old who has been studying magic for the past 100 years could be surpassed in magical aptitude by a High Orc that is less than 10 years old.
Because a 'profession' doesn't always mean magic. A profession is something that I would consider is either a craftsman (if you choose to put it on your card) or an actual, roleplaying profession (Farmer, Cooper, Tavernkeep, scribe, etc). Once again, looking at it from a roleplaying perspective of adding flavor to the game, not what kind of build you walk in with. If it had to do with the amount of magic you learn, then I would recommend building a blank character in a database who then can come in at 20th level with a full X block.
What about NPCs that are not combat oriented? What about PCs that have characters with a race that has a projected lifespan of less than a decade, yet have been playing the character for 15+ years?
Granted, there are ways that the age discontinuity can be played off for one reason or another. But, there is a lot of discontinuity due to players aging differently than their characters!
When the rules say High Ogres may be only 4 years old when they start adventuring and a player can play that character for two decades or more and still be fit to adventure my suspension of disbelief is a little strained. When the rules say (chapter specific in this case) that a biata isn't matured until around age 100 and a player can paige at [player] age 10 (biata age 40 or 50) and grow up OOG within 10 years so the biata is now "matured", my suspension of disbelief is strained. Or, if a player of age 40 starts playing an elf and [because of OOG physical appearance] the character is assumed to be centuries old and his backstory was he worked with the Earth Guild all his life yet comes into game with only a 3rd level spell as his most powerful spell, my suspension of disbelief is strained.
NPCs that are not combat oriented can have an explanation tacked on as needed, or recast if they are a one-shot individual. If you have a PC that has a projected lifespan of less than a decade, then maybe you should either start playing a new character, or find a reason why your character has lived long past his/her lifespan. That requires some forethought when building your character, and picking what age he/she is.
Same thing goes for PCs. If you want to be an elf, and you're coming in at level 1, maybe you should really sit down and think about what you could've been doing for the past couple years that has your skills not where they should be. Are you an 800 year old elf who suddenly has forgotten all of his spells and how to cast them, and have to begin again? Maybe when you were working at the healer's guild, you were the low man on the totem pole, so your guildmaster taught you nothing more than first aid and healing arts, and left you to fend for yourself otherwise. Maybe you fulfilled some other occupation in the guild, like cleaning bandages or keeping up the books.
All of these points, if placed in your character history, are things for your plot team to approve when your character history is handed in. Alternately, I know if a character history came across my desk that said "I'm 800+ years old and was part of a guild but I'm starting at level one" I would at least shoot an email to the rest of the plot team red-flagging the history, and asking how my plot team felt about it.
Finally, while I can somewhat understand your frustration, I feel that we suspend disbelief over much harder things. Things like pretending a packet is a great fireball, or ice-bolt, or the guy covered in painted foam is really a dragon, or that a three count makes us all disappear to go from one place to another. I guess I just consider my friends and I getting older as something far, far easier to get over in the long run of suspension of disbelief.
-Ali
So I attempted to place your quotes in via the message board option, and it came out as gobbeldy gook. So I think I grabbed everything in reference to what you had said - if not please let me know.
Short lived races can also be patient. Look at the Japanese culture.
In refering to Japanese culture, yes, people can be patient, but looking around, that's not the norm. Plus, Japanese still live on a normal human lifespan. I'm more refering to the fact wherein depending on the chapter, Orcs, Wilderkin or others live a maxout of maybe 25 years maximum. Most of the short lived races I've run into reflect that perspective of needing to learn quickly, because they won't survive otherwise. Its built into their fantasy culture. Alternately, while short lived races -can- absolutely be patient in our game, its more the exception, and not the majority, at least from what I've experienced in the last 10 years, give or take.
If the longer lived races have the patience to perfect their abilities then why aren't the average elven/biata/mwe soldiers/wizards/rogues/healers on a level high above high orc/high ogre/wylderkin/human/hobling/etc. of the same profession?
Because the class abilities are based on OOG dynamics of build spending and XP earned, to keep the game fair.
Granted, a player playing a longer lived race could have had a profession before becoming an adventurer or whatever. But unless every member of those long lived races has multiple professions each it does not explain why an elf that is 800 years old who has been studying magic for the past 100 years could be surpassed in magical aptitude by a High Orc that is less than 10 years old.
Because a 'profession' doesn't always mean magic. A profession is something that I would consider is either a craftsman (if you choose to put it on your card) or an actual, roleplaying profession (Farmer, Cooper, Tavernkeep, scribe, etc). Once again, looking at it from a roleplaying perspective of adding flavor to the game, not what kind of build you walk in with. If it had to do with the amount of magic you learn, then I would recommend building a blank character in a database who then can come in at 20th level with a full X block.
What about NPCs that are not combat oriented? What about PCs that have characters with a race that has a projected lifespan of less than a decade, yet have been playing the character for 15+ years?
Granted, there are ways that the age discontinuity can be played off for one reason or another. But, there is a lot of discontinuity due to players aging differently than their characters!
When the rules say High Ogres may be only 4 years old when they start adventuring and a player can play that character for two decades or more and still be fit to adventure my suspension of disbelief is a little strained. When the rules say (chapter specific in this case) that a biata isn't matured until around age 100 and a player can paige at [player] age 10 (biata age 40 or 50) and grow up OOG within 10 years so the biata is now "matured", my suspension of disbelief is strained. Or, if a player of age 40 starts playing an elf and [because of OOG physical appearance] the character is assumed to be centuries old and his backstory was he worked with the Earth Guild all his life yet comes into game with only a 3rd level spell as his most powerful spell, my suspension of disbelief is strained.
NPCs that are not combat oriented can have an explanation tacked on as needed, or recast if they are a one-shot individual. If you have a PC that has a projected lifespan of less than a decade, then maybe you should either start playing a new character, or find a reason why your character has lived long past his/her lifespan. That requires some forethought when building your character, and picking what age he/she is.
Same thing goes for PCs. If you want to be an elf, and you're coming in at level 1, maybe you should really sit down and think about what you could've been doing for the past couple years that has your skills not where they should be. Are you an 800 year old elf who suddenly has forgotten all of his spells and how to cast them, and have to begin again? Maybe when you were working at the healer's guild, you were the low man on the totem pole, so your guildmaster taught you nothing more than first aid and healing arts, and left you to fend for yourself otherwise. Maybe you fulfilled some other occupation in the guild, like cleaning bandages or keeping up the books.
All of these points, if placed in your character history, are things for your plot team to approve when your character history is handed in. Alternately, I know if a character history came across my desk that said "I'm 800+ years old and was part of a guild but I'm starting at level one" I would at least shoot an email to the rest of the plot team red-flagging the history, and asking how my plot team felt about it.
Finally, while I can somewhat understand your frustration, I feel that we suspend disbelief over much harder things. Things like pretending a packet is a great fireball, or ice-bolt, or the guy covered in painted foam is really a dragon, or that a three count makes us all disappear to go from one place to another. I guess I just consider my friends and I getting older as something far, far easier to get over in the long run of suspension of disbelief.
-Ali
Wellllll.... I can think of one very good explanation for adventurers "aging" faster.
Adventurers have this tendency to be healed not by time, but by magic. Lots of healing magic.
Magic that draws on the body to mend lethal wounds in moments rather than months or years.
Clearly, all the rapidly "aging" elves and other long-lived races don't handle the strain very well, while more robust "human-span" ones are more suited to such demands on their forms. Of course, looking centuries older than you were for an elf is probably better than dead from that pack of ghouls who chewed off most of your limbs, or that goblin who stuck a spear through your gut, or that explosive trap that mostly took off your face, or...
(geez, PC's do get beaten up a lot, don't they?)
Adventurers have this tendency to be healed not by time, but by magic. Lots of healing magic.
Magic that draws on the body to mend lethal wounds in moments rather than months or years.
Clearly, all the rapidly "aging" elves and other long-lived races don't handle the strain very well, while more robust "human-span" ones are more suited to such demands on their forms. Of course, looking centuries older than you were for an elf is probably better than dead from that pack of ghouls who chewed off most of your limbs, or that goblin who stuck a spear through your gut, or that explosive trap that mostly took off your face, or...
(geez, PC's do get beaten up a lot, don't they?)
Alavatar
Baron
Talen said:
That's a good story-driven argument for long lived races played by PCs! And it can even somewhat be applied to short lived races played by PCs living beyond their normal lifespan. Great idea!
Unfortunately, it doesn't cover non-combat static NPCs.
And Ali, I am not worried about character cards and such. Too be honest, I care most about the story and the continuity of the world I play in rather than stats on a card.
