beboped said:
So here's a challenge: Can anyone design a system which both empowers those who do enjoy the stuff-quest and does not force players who are not interested in it to participate? I would posit that any system which allows for an uncapped stuff-quest (i.e. not instituting hard limits on the number of usable MIs, etc) will inevitably create the need to scale assuming players have at least some of those MIs. This will then require the uninterested players to do stuff-questing to keep up with the minimum scale.
So the question here is actually very fundamental: Are the preferences of the stuff-questers or the non-stuff-questers more valid? What is the exact relationship of their validity? Answer those, and you can then design a system to implement that relationship. Unfortunately, everyone's answers are different. Right now, Alliance allows for a mostly-uncapped stuff-quest, while also providing avenues for dedicated players to side-step the stuff quest through gobby ritual purchasing. This is a balance in favor of the stuff-questers which doesn't entirely disenfranchise the non-stuff-questers. Could we tweak it? Sure, but you'll have to convince the voters that the current value judgments are wrong, and that the adjustments hew to a better value judgment.
I think the "requirement" to stuff-quest is more inherent in the combat system's (a) accessibility to effects that can remove players immediately from the battle, and (b) monsters resistances and immunities that can deplete innate resources (memorized spells or per-day skills). I don't think a cap on the number of MIs a player can use will fix the root-cause. At best, in my opinion, it would just be a band-aid (on top of the rest of the band-aids this game has received over the years).
I bet that players who stuff-quest, but don't want to, do it because they feel they
have to in order to have fun as they get higher in level. Getting hit by a "I summon a force to Disarm your weapon! I command you to Sleep!", and falling to the ground snoring, is not fun. Using your 4 90 Slays and 2 Eviscerates only to have them either Parried or taken with no apparent effect is also not fun. Encountering a creature that is No Effect to the Sleep you threw, ripped from the Confine, and Resisted the first 3 Prisons (oh, and 2 Deaths thrown by that Earth Caster over there) (thereby depleting the spells you can throw) and knowing there are 4 more is, once again, also not fun. Feeling useless or inadequate is not fun, so people stuff-quest so they can feel useful and therefore have some fun for just a little bit longer.
In Alliance, there are about 20 effects that can instantly disable a character. Fighter-types, as an example of the class that is screwed the most, can have innate resources (Parry/Riposte) to defend against only two of those (Eviscerate/Terminate) (assuming normal expected delivery) without relying on Magic Items. Scholars, similarly, can defend against more effects, per se, based on the delivery for the most part until they get High Magic.
If the combat system were dramatically changed to significantly reduce the number of effects that can instantly disable a player, change the defenses that completely stop effects to instead still have
some effect bleed through the immunity/defense, and change the way Magic Items inherently work then I think there would be less perceived
need to stuff-quest.
beboped said:
I would posit that any system which allows for an uncapped stuff-quest (i.e. not instituting hard limits on the number of usable MIs, etc) will inevitably create the need to scale assuming players have at least some of those MIs.
This particular part of your post confuses me. How can you assume everyone has stuff if it is possible for the stuff to be hoarded by a small number of players (thereby taking advantage of there not being an upper limit)? I would assume the opposite, actually; that a hard limit would spread the stuff around which would then lead to assuming people have stuff.
I have heard frequently from various folks that stat encounters is that the hard part is stating the encounter to give Mr. Magicstuffedpants a challenge while not completely overpowering Casual McTwoCloakSummonedForce guy.