Armor

[Unsure]

I was wondering if said attached picture had a relative armor value to it. I was thinking of doing up some armor and came across this online at the ring lord. The chain portion would be 16 ga. 1/2 inner dia. aluminum with a 6 in 1 pattern and the plates would be hardened (or cuir bouilli-ed)leather with large attached metal adornments.

I was thinking of useing the high contrast look of the white aluminum next to the black leather.

Thanks for any and all input,
B~>

 

[Maxondaerth]

Under the current system of rating armor, I would say that it would be two points per location covered. Reason being while the chain is a very tight weave, it is made from a light metal, and leather is supposed to be super thick to give more than one point or reinforced with metal additions, but unless that leather is like super light before doing the treatment to it that hardening of the leather bumps it up one in my book. It would also get maximum bonus points for looking hella cool .

 

[Unsure]

Well the adornments would act like studs on leather only they wouldn't be plain old boring studs of course. The leather I'm working with is 3/16" thick right now but the hardening process will most likely thicken it to 1/4" - 5/16". So my question would be how thick does it have to be as well as how do studs work out to get 3 points per local?

The aluminum will be hardened as well to mild steal strength or copper or bronze type of hardness. There is a process where aluminum does get hardened by working it and condensing it. Aluminum bats used to be hardened this way. I would place the aluminum at the bottom of a 60 gal. barrel and leave it there for some time (1 month I think). Do you think that this as well will garner some armor value?

Thanks keep it comming,
B~>

 

[jpariury]

Unfortunately, the Alliance rules make no allowance for technique or excessive thickness. A five-foot thick plate of hardened aluminum will garner only 2 pts of protection.

 

[Wraith]

Now if that was 14ga steel/copper/bronze chain with 5/8" inner diameter or less and 18ga or thicker steel/copper/bronze plates, then you'd be looking at 3 points per location. Anything that isn't heavy metal is going to be 2 point, no matter how thickly you stud it.

 

[obcidian_bandit]

Sorry, it's practically impossible to pull three points. It's only 2 per location.

 

[Dreamingfurther]

Just one more reason on the list why armor is so gimped... :?

 

[Ezri]

To get 3 points it has to be heavy metal plate. There's just no getting around it. Any rpg that has high end armor values always use metal plate. Heck even wow does that (unless you can find me leather armor that has the same value as a lv 80 chest piece of plate armor). The difference is that armor in those games doesn't have an real life weight or expense.

 

[tieran]

Actually there is a whole system that gives equal value for plastic plate as they do for metal.

 

[Dreamingfurther]

I really wish it could be based on how much it "adds" to the game as far as look and costuming rather than just metal value... but oh well.

 

[Toddo]

That's where Master Crafted comes in.

 

[jpariury]

I really wish it could be based on how much it "adds" to the game as far as look and costuming rather than just metal value... but oh well.

Based on the rules as written, looking really cool matters less than what material it's made out of.

 

[Lurin]

I don't know, for me looking at a really ornate 'cool' rep that I know is made of plastic or latex actually detracts from the game for me. I mean the point is immersion, or as close as we can get right? I'd rather have a less 'cool looking' rep that is the real thing then an ornate piece of latex or plastic. For some reason I'm impressed by/ feel more into the game when I see someone in actual metal, or thickly padded cloth armor, I don't get the same feeling a cosplay like costume.

also as a rule system, it would be incredibly difficult if not impossible to be fair on how many points of 'cool' a suit was worth, which is why it makes sense to have the mastercraft bonus be limited to 6 points, or up to 20% of the total score.

 

[Gilwing]

I don't know, for me looking at a really ornate 'cool' rep that I know is made of plastic or latex actually detracts from the game for me. I mean the point is immersion, or as close as we can get right? I'd rather have a less 'cool looking' rep that is the real thing then an ornate piece of latex or plastic. For some reason I'm impressed by/ feel more into the game when I see someone in actual metal, or thickly padded cloth armor, I don't get the same feeling a cosplay like costume.

also as a rule system, it would be incredibly difficult if not impossible to be fair on how many points of 'cool' a suit was worth, which is why it makes sense to have the mastercraft bonus be limited to 6 points, or up to 20% of the total score.

Heres the thing...what if you don't know what its made out of? You just see me walking down the path with it on and say wow that looks realy nice. Im not going to tell you that it fisherprice and made out of plastic (and ill say it before Justin D does, yes it fits me hehehe j/k). The point that some are trying to make is that the look part helps most people with the immsersion.

 

[Lurin]

Heres the thing...what if you don't know what its made out of? You just see me walking down the path with it on and say wow that looks realy nice. Im not going to tell you that it fisherprice and made out of plastic (and ill say it before Justin D does, yes it fits me hehehe j/k). The point that some are trying to make is that the look part helps most people with the immsersion.

I get what you are saying, I do, but how do you fairly rate such armor? Is your armor cooler then Billy Barbarians? which should have a bigger in-game advantage. I'm by no means trying to say you should not get a benefit from wearing wearing a cool costume, but shouldn't those people wearing a suit of heavy mail (and trust me, its reeeeeal easy to tell who is wearing 30 pounds of metal and who isn't) have the most effective in game armor? You can already get two out of three possible points for nice cosmetic and light armor, with a six point kicker for master craft if it looks good. Thats up to a 24, 26 suit right there depending on how large it is. So under the current system you can max out your armor points for every class but a pure bred fighter, without going to 3- point suit of metal with what every material you are comfortable with (thick leather, light metals).

Ultimately, I personally do not want to be put in the position of declaring armor based on how 'neat' it is. I could not look at someone wearing functional metal/plate etc. and tell them that they get the same benefit as someone wearing plastic, or light weave metal, because frankly no one would ever wear those cool, suits of metal in game anymore and that would be sad, and armor ratings would vary drastically with the opinions of the rater.

Remember this topic started by someone stating light-weave armor would not qualify for 3-points a zone, and thats what I am supporting, I am not saying cool armor reps not made of heavy metal deserve no benefit, just not the top of the food chain.

 

[jpariury]

Generally speaking, I believe armour should be rated on what it is intended to represent and if it looks like what it is intended to represent.

Nothing enforcable rewards players for playing with disadvantaged weapons (heavy-headed, non-UL, staves, etc.), and I don't believe there should be any enforcable rewards for playing with disadvantaged armour (heavy metals over lighter).

 

[dreadpiratebill]

Unfortunately, the Alliance rules make no allowance for technique or excessive thickness. A five-foot thick plate of hardened aluminum will garner only 2 pts of protection.

Not nessesarily true. Due to marshal discresion and construction, it would be possible to have a two peice (front and back) solid aluminum breastplate thats 3 points per location. If it looks like thick metal, it IS thick metal. Aluminum or steal wouldn't matter in the case of plate maile as long as its contructed apropriatly. Obviously if you come to be in 20 gage sheet aluminum and it looks like I could bend it by sneezing to hard, then your not getting three points. It really is case by case basis. In the case of chain suits, we have specific dimentions and inner ring diameters stated in the rules to get 3 points per location.

Sorry, it's practically impossible to pull three points. It's only 2 per location.

I get three points per location for my suit, but its steel scale maile with no gaps. I might as well be wearing plate. Ask jesse hennessie some day about my armour and if it actualy works. Saved everyone a nice and odd trip to teh emergency room.
--bill
Caldaria Staff
Caldaria Marshal

--bill

 

[obcidian_bandit]

it would be possible to have a two peice (front and back) solid aluminum breastplate thats 3 points per location. If it looks like thick metal, it IS thick metal. Aluminum or steal wouldn't matter in the case of plate maile as long as its contructed apropriatly.

Nope, 'fraid not.

2 points: Light Metallic Armor

Then:

Note that "Light Metal" is defined as aluminum or any of it's alloys.

It's really hard to get 3 points, regardless of how good it looks.
~Matt, WCV
Marshal

 

[Wraith]

Sorry, it's practically impossible to pull three points. It's only 2 per location.

I get three points per location for my suit, but its steel scale maile with no gaps. I might as well be wearing plate. Ask jesse hennessie some day about my armour and if it actualy works. Saved everyone a nice and odd trip to teh emergency room.
--bill

I usually pull three per location from my coat of plates as well, but it is 18 GA steel plate riveted into four layers of canvas. Yes, wearing heavier armor puts me at a distinct disadvantage in Alliance combat, but I like the look and feel of it.

Generally speaking, I believe armour should be rated on what it is intended to represent and if it looks like what it is intended to represent.

Nothing enforcable rewards players for playing with disadvantaged weapons (heavy-headed, non-UL, staves, etc.), and I don't believe there should be any enforcable rewards for playing with disadvantaged armour (heavy metals over lighter).

It isn't so much a reward as a penalty against lighter armor that quite frankly would not and does not protect as well as a heavy metal armor does. A large part of the protective properties of plate and -especially- of heavy chain lie in the fact that they have a good bit of mass to absorb the force of blows that could otherwise still crush tissue and bone beneath. You could not pay me enough to take a real sword shot in the welded stainless chain that I most often see players use as the best way to get armor points that weigh practically nothing. Even without being cut, I'd expect broken bones at the least.

Frankly, though, I feel the point is somewhat academic given the proliferation of arcane armor. The advantages of lighter armor vs heavier in a speed-based combat system pale against being able to get the same protection from a functionally weightless rep.

 

[jpariury]

It isn't so much a reward as a penalty against lighter armor that quite frankly would not and does not protect as well as a heavy metal armor does.

Sweet. Do I get a damage bonus for wielding live steel?

I think you're missing or ignoring the underlying philosophy I'm suggesting: we play a representative game, and as such, representation should trump reality. If you look like you're wearing heavy metal, you should get the game benefits of wearing heavy metal. We don't give benefits for wielding weapons that could actually cleave someone in twain, why give benefits for wearing armor that can stop a speeding bullet that's more powerful than a locomotive?