[Balance] What is the best class in the current [1.3] Rules?

Which class is the strongest mechanically?

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Graham Wolsey

I wonder if people's thoughts and opinions on class balance in 1.3 are tainting the way 2.0 rules are being implemented and created. To that end I'm very curious what people believe about class balance in the current version of the rules we are playing with in Alliance.



-No Bane (Except from High Magic)
-No Cloak (Except from High Magic)
-No Master Construct
-No Expand Enchantment
-No Damage Aura
-No Monster Slayer
-No Race Reaver
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Graham Wolsey

Is this poll rating classes without any itemization options? Or should we account for the currently proposed item list?

I don't think anyone is objecting to the majority of the itemization changes in [2.0] so I'd say without itemization beyond that which a player could easily get soon after joining Alliance (Suit of Armor, Wand, Spellbook with all spells, weapons, shield, some minor potions, etc].


I'm going C-Casters.

Healing is reactive, not preventative. Preventative effects are best represented with two types of spells: KOs and Protectives.

E-Casters have Poison Shield (4th), Paralysis (8th), and Death (9th). Silence is a niche KO, and fairly easily countered, so I'm not counting it in my analysis, but it may work better in other chapters than it does in Seattle.

C-Casters have Prison.

Now, there's two ways to measure power: PvE and PvP. In PvP, I'd say they're pretty evenly matched, maybe a slight edge to the E Caster due to Paralysis. This is assuming he's prepped for PvP. However, if the C-Caster is Bottled? Then Death's out, and it's Paralysis versus Prison, and the E-Caster's access to Magic-Augmented Purify is depleted versus the C-Caster's access to Magic Augmented Dispel.

In PvE, the victory goes overwhelmingly to the C-Caster, though. The E-Caster is assumed to have a split-preparation, as he's expected to provide healing. He doesn't have a Wand or Scrolls to extend his resources, either, and since everyone can use potions equally, he's less likely to have potions compared to the C-Caster having scrolls. Even if he prepares without Healing, the C-Caster is going to have wands and scrolls to rely on when they're both out of spells.

Graham Wolsey

For me personally, I answer this question by asking "If I was going on a module what is the one class I couldn't go without?" the answer for me every time is an Earth Scholar. Maybe our chapter doesn't have the itemization issues of other chapters, but I can't imagine not taking someone for healing, protective spells, status effect clears, and life. Earth casters also get Curses and Bindomancy which are some of the most powerful effects in the game and their Life spells double as Deaths in a pinch. I think Celestial Casters are really close, and for PvP I'd actually pick Rogues since they get both gases and dodges.


"Best" is such an interesting turn of phrase. I agree that usually the first class I look for is E-caster. Then I go at least one fighter if not two. Then fill in with a celestial caster and then back to Earth templar. I find that most C-casters are problem solvers. They are my toolbox for fixing things that I don't expect to happen. That makes them very good, but also somewhat niche.

I choose earth templar above because I almost feel like they have the most access to content. I hate weak links when I'm designing a team and earth templar rarely has any big weaknesses.


If you include Magic Items?

Celestial Scholar in Master Construct because Immunities.


While I started my character years ago with the premise of a self-sufficient tank-build as an Earth Templar, the system sadly never supported it. Celestial Scholars shoe-horning themselves into a Golem became everything I wanted to be, between high damage, high resistances/immunities, and self-healing.


From a staff perspective I would argue fighters (though high level c-casters can also begin to fit this space after a certain point), because their very high sustained damage makes them the absolute hardest to scale around and still give a fun and interesting encounter for everyone else.

From a player perspective I think most classes are on a relatively equal footing, with rogues and earth scholars coming out somewhat behind (attacking from behind hinders rogues more than the bonus damage helps, and earth casters have too many pressures on their limited spell column), and earth templars (incredible flexibility) and c-scholars (wands and golems) coming out slightly ahead.


I'd go with C-caster with OHE and shield under 1.3. If you remove MIs, it becomes a harder call due to the question of how the NPC database changes.

But at the moment, C-S wins. They have the best takeout effects, can do good damage with a DA that gives them huge build equivalency, and have access to the ultimate get out of jail card in Prison. They have a pocket full of answers, and in town fights their effects are a lot more likely to take out NPCs because said NPCs will have difficulty accurately accounting for all that fighter damage in the scrum.

Earth scholars are more useful in a group, but they're not going to win mods (or get any real respect for how much they make everyone else's play experience better, a lot of the time).

Weakest, if we ignore Artisan, I'd have to say is Scout. It's just too expensive to make work until you get to very high build totals, up until ~250 build a straight class fighter or rogue can clown on them effectiveness wise. After, they're still generally only great at having a bunch of defensives, and a Rogue who spent equivalent build in Backstabs to get Dodges and Evades can keep up just as easily.


I would be super curious how many of the people that voted earth templar actually have played an earth templar.
I played an earth templar NPC for about a decade. It was an important town NPC that I played for full weekends at various points (mid 20s level), so I think I have a pretty good grasp of the class even if I never did PC it.



I would be super curious how many of the people that voted earth templar actually have played an earth templar.

Me. I'm mf god mode.


I voted for Earth Templar (and I haven't played one), but Muir might have convinced me of Celestial Scholar with Sword/board (even without Master Construct). That's what my main is. My alt is a sword/spear hobling scout (but build like a fighter).
If we're only voting for things we've really played, my only option is rogue... and once you stop laughing we can all move on from that nonsense.


Alliance Rules
Chicago Staff
While I've never played an E Templar I've always had a fascination with them. I can't actually if they're the best but they've always seemed effective to me. A fighter that can bind and curse enamies plus heal themselves seems pretty good. Things like slays + destruction, swinging 10 earth all day long (with high magic), and a fighter able to go dumb stuff and probably survive because they have a rebirth. That all seems fun and effective to me.

Scouts also follow this vein to a lesser degree when they purchase alchemy 3 on top of all their fighter and rogue toys. Again I can't say that I've ever played it but I do want to at some point since I currently use very few toys on my fighter. The idea of chaining large amounts of disarms, shatters, and stun limbs sounds fun to me.

That being said I don't think I could ever pick one class to be the 'best' mechanically (unless it's a C scholar in a golem. That shiz is crazy) because it can depend so much on what you're fighting. So many variables can make such a huge difference. Simple things like claws vs weapons and "what spells does this thing take?" Those things can drastically change what is "good" at any given time.

TLDR: Dunno what's the best. Depends on what you're doing but scouts and E templars are cool.


The difficulty here is defining what "Best" means.

If it means able to deal the most damage - I would say Fighter with C-Scholar right behind. The rogue could be up there, but rarely has the opportunity to get behind in all fights.

If it means has the most abilities to use during an event - Then C-Scholar wins hands down, as they have their spells, likely a weapon for crunchies, and a wand full of distance damage.

If it means the most important to group survival - Then E-Scholar obviously

If it means the most important to your own survival - Then E-Templar is likely the best.

This list could go on for a while. Personally when i think what is the best class, I think what is the class that gives me the most to do in non combat situations, and has a lot to do in combat and is effective in taking out NPCs in combat. Under this definition, I rate the classes as follows. (Each category ranked 1 poor to 5 best)

Artisan and Rogue scores for combat are lower because of the gold cost of using Alchemy

CLASS ----- Non-combat ------ Combat to do ------ Combat Effectiveness ------- TOTAL
Fighter ----------- 1 ----------------------- 4 -------------------------- 5 -------------------------- 10
Scout -------------- 1 ----------------------- 3 -------------------------- 3 -------------------------- 7
Rogue ------------- 3 ----------------------- 3 -------------------------- 3 -------------------------- 9
C-Templar ------- 3 ----------------------- 4 -------------------------- 3 -------------------------- 10
E-Templar ------ 3 ----------------------- 3 -------------------------- 3 -------------------------- 9
Adept ------------- 3 ----------------------- 3 -------------------------- 3 -------------------------- 9
Artisan ----------- 4 ----------------------- 1 -------------------------- 2 -------------------------- 7
C-Scholar -------- 5 ----------------------- 5 -------------------------- 4 -------------------------- 14
E-Scholar -------- 5 ----------------------- 3 -------------------------- 2 -------------------------- 10

These scores are based solely on my personal opinion at the time of posting this.
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