Blurring the line

[Gunnar]

In looking at Gilwing's post in the "Characters after Permanent Death" thread, it got me thinking.

I know for me, at least, whenever I meet an NPC townie, I usually treat them the same (or better) than any other adventurer. (It's dangerous, would you like an escort? etc etc..) As an NPC, I try to make sure to interact with players based on the stat card/idea (obviously, there is limited things you can do with mindless undead, but every groan helps )

What can we do as players and plot to 'blur' the in game line between NPCs and PCs to make the world feel a little more real?

(Positive feedback only please)

-Ali

 

[Wraith]

It's really simple, but sometimes hard to remember. A little technique I've heard called 'reverse metagaming'. All you have to do is willingly ignore the in-game existence of the rules mechanics, and interact with PC's and NPC's on the basis of just their behavior, not what you think their stat cards are.

That effort has to go both ways, though. If the NPC's behave like action-movie mooks because they're 'just a crunchy' that doesn't need characterization, we end up playing whack-a-mole with anything that isn't obviously 'people'.

 

[Silverharp]

I try to treat every NPC the same as if it were a PC I've never met.
I like the reverse metagaming, that's good.

 

[Gunnar]

Reverse metagaming is definitely a major win - can you guys list some specific examples for newer players?

 

[Wraith]

The biggest example I can give is -talking- to anything that isn't obviously just mindlessly attacking. Try solutions other than the stick, and you'll both get more chances to roleplay your character, and help build a deeper story for your game. I can't count the number of times I've seen a group of adventurers up and slaughter something based on the logic that 'it's approaching the tavern at night, it's obviously a crunchy' or 'it's on a mod, it's there to kill', because that's how they as players know the rhythm of the game works.

But those mods aren't the ones you still remember a few years down the road. The one where you, say, bribed a few goblins with something shiny so they'd tell you where something of interest was? That'll stick with you.

I actually tend to carry trail mix bars, or similar small pre-packaged snacks on me to bribe critters like that with. Win-win, the NPC gets a snack and a chance to really ham it up and play their character to the hilt, and I get some interaction more engaging than a few seconds of swinging pipe.

 

[Gunnar]

Another thing I've seen that has been helpful is the reoccuring farmer. Not to the point where the guy's always attacked, but its nice to have the guy who walked in two events ago who the PCs helped return and go "Oh hey! You guys helped me with that thing! Can you get a couple of your buddies and help me out with this other thing?"

Same with villains. When a PC has been particularly 'memorable' to a villain, it shouldn't be too much of a stretch for that villain to remember that PC either. The fight (and deviousness) absolutely should go both ways.

-Ali

 

[Warlok]

Sorry these thoughts aren't well-formed...I tried to get some ideas out between tasks here at work.

For me, it's all about encouraging an environment in which not every NPC is expected to be "crunchy". It's Plot's responsibility to send out a variety of combat and non-combat NPCs, and it's the PCs' responsibility to not hack at everything first and ask questions later. For Plot, sending out NPCs of varying races, depending on the IG area, shows that there is a diversity that exists in the world beyond the adventuring community. Also, for people playing as NPCs, try to have a few basic character concepts in mind for when you get sent out last-minute as the farmer's son's dog's former owner's cousin's farmhand for that last-minute mod hook. Maybe you're mute and you have to use hand signals. Maybe you wish you'd been born a Gypsy or a Stone Elf, but you're a Dryad or a Hobling, so you stare at one of the PCs of the other race. Mayber you're from Nowheresville and you've never seen a "Wild Barbarian" before, or perhaps you were born into privelege and hunt Monstrous Orcs for sport, but have never seen a "Tame" (High) Orc before. Any ideas you have to make that persona be more than just "farmer #5" will make the world seem more realistic. For PCs, it's important to know what's going on. Try to ruminate on your character and what their day-to-day actions might be like between events. I know that as a Master Blacksmith, that's about all my character does from one event to the next, but he also has other aspirations and takes his family on vacation and such. He's gotten out into the community and developed relationships with some local folks, as well. I try to imagine him going over to visit with the people he's acquainted or the places he's visited. Developing these ideas between events will help you to create memories for your character which will put you more into their personality and better able to to imagine what the rest of the local world looks like, even if you're tromping around the same woods that you have been tromping around for the past few years.

-Luke

 

[Mike Ventrella]

"Reverse metagaming" is on page 21 of the Rule Book. Here's what it says:

If you “metagame” you are using your out-of-game knowledge for in-game benefit. This is cheating.

At the same time, for the good of the game, sometimes we need you to “reverse metagame” when it will help everyone have more fun.

For instance, if a poor farmer comes into town and says “I need to hire a small group of adventurers to help me get rid of the giant rats infesting my barn,” it’s pretty clear that this is a hook for a module. “I can only afford to pay about six people,” he may say, “and even then, only a few coppers apiece.” Obviously, this then is a module meant for low-level players.

If you are a more powerful player, don’t ruin the fun of the lower level players with your attempts to go on this module. If you are a low-level player, don’t insist on bringing 20 of your friends when obviously this was designed for a small group.

Of course it doesn’t make in-game sense that the farmer would turn down more help. Of course there is no real in-game reason why the entire town couldn’t volunteer to help the guy for free. But will that provide the most fun for the players?

Reverse metagame. Use your OOG knowledge about how the game works to allow all players to have fun and have a shot at the adventures. It’s all a part of being a good sport, and you don’t even have to be playing a good guy to do this.

 

[evi1r0n]

Currently Seattle and OR have given all their guild NPCs reoccurring townie characters. These characters interact with the world and are effected by PC choice. That works really well for creating a sense of a real community around these crazy adventurers. Folks just trying to make their way.

 

[SkollWolfrun]

Currently Seattle and OR have given all their guild NPCs reoccurring townie characters. These characters interact with the world and are effected by PC choice. That works really well for creating a sense of a real community around these crazy adventurers. Folks just trying to make their way.

You let my cows die!

 

[OrcFighterFTW]

From an NPC standpoint, don't let the PCs push you around. Depending on local plot team/in-game laws, you could still resurrect if killed, use local laws and nobles to charge PCs with any assaults, thefts, murders, etc. (assuming memory of the event). In the example of the "nuke 'em and life 'em" hostage scenario, the NPC character could tell a noble "Well yes, they rescued me, but first they assaulted and murdered me!"

You can also use other "off-stage" plot resources to balance the power. In a sense, if you notice PCs consistently treating you differently (in a "oh that's just an NPC" sense), force them to change that behavior through the power of plot and the ability to create more NPCs. If you do that enough, this problem should start to correct itself (or keep doing it until the lesson is learned). I believe this is an out-of-game problem that can be easily solved with this in-game cure.

However, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of the cure, so as a PC, make an effort to interact with NPCs consistent with the way that you interact with PCs.

 

[Michiko]

I think it's all about building a culture where immersion is the norm and not the exception (without being punitive about it). It's something each individual can work on for themselves and also lead others to by example. I think this post is a great example of doing just that.

<thumbs up>

 

[markusdark]

However, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of the cure, so as a PC, make an effort to interact with NPCs consistent with the way that you interact with PCs.

I'd also say the reverse is true - that PC's should interact with other PC's the way they do with NPC's. I have witnessed many people letting PC's get away with stuff that they'd drop an NPC immediately for doing. And I've also altered the way my character would act/react because it involved a PC.

Although there is a little bit of making sure that your fellow PC has fun as well, people should keep in mind that you are also there for fun.

 

[Mike Ventrella]

However, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of the cure, so as a PC, make an effort to interact with NPCs consistent with the way that you interact with PCs.

I'd also say the reverse is true - that PC's should interact with other PC's the way they do with NPC's. I have witnessed many people letting PC's get away with stuff that they'd drop an NPC immediately for doing. And I've also altered the way my character would act/react because it involved a PC.

Although there is a little bit of making sure that your fellow PC has fun as well, people should keep in mind that you are also there for fun.

This is true, although I have noticed it less and less over the years (at least in Ashbury). A PC doing something illegal has many friends who will claim they are being mistreated when the law comes after them, whereas an NPC doing the exact same thing is dealt justice and no one blinks.

In Ashbury, we have encouraged all NPCs to create a recurring town character ("I'm Billibob the Farmer!") that they can play whenever they want to go to the tavern for a snack or something, and also for hooks. It adds quite a nice feeling to the game atmosphere... I assume and hope other chapters are doing the same thing!

 

[Duke Frost]

On the other hand, this reflects real life, and what was real life in medieval times pretty accurately. People who have gained status in the community get treated better and even with favoritism by the law. A farmer (peasant) wouldn't even dare try and accuse a noble or rich merchant or famous adventurer (I'm sure there were some in real life) of a crime. Congressmen fix 33 tickets for their ex-prostitute lover yet remain in office. Pro athlets kill people or shoot themselves in a club with an illegal gun, do a few years, then go back to making millions. The rich and powerful get special treatment even today, let alone in a medieval society.

The setting is very often the adventurer's home base too, so they are likely to get even more special treatment from their friends and the law. So in some ways, it makes sense.

We ran a very "out of town" event one year where the law was very harsh and people got executed (with lots and lots of pre-game OOG warnings saying what the event would be like). Honestly, people didn't like it and we haven't run anything like it since.

Scott

 

[Duke Frost]

Now, if the NPCs are rich and powerful...that should be taken into account too. But a lot of the NPCs will be treated differently than adventurers because of their IG place in the established society.

Scott

 

[Gilwing]

We ran a very "out of town" event one year where the law was very harsh and people got executed (with lots and lots of pre-game OOG warnings saying what the event would be like). Honestly, people didn't like it and we haven't run anything like it since.

Scott

If i'm thinking about the same event I loved it, but figures I would. People didn't realize the situation they were in and "roll with it".

 

[Duke Frost]

We ran a very "out of town" event one year where the law was very harsh and people got executed (with lots and lots of pre-game OOG warnings saying what the event would be like). Honestly, people didn't like it and we haven't run anything like it since.

Scott

If i'm thinking about the same event I loved it, but figures I would. People didn't realize the situation they were in and "roll with it".

Zumanta's Refuge. Ironically, there are people on your team who hated it

That's what I get for running a Soprano's themed event, haha.

Scott

 

[Gilwing]

We ran a very "out of town" event one year where the law was very harsh and people got executed (with lots and lots of pre-game OOG warnings saying what the event would be like). Honestly, people didn't like it and we haven't run anything like it since.

Scott

If i'm thinking about the same event I loved it, but figures I would. People didn't realize the situation they were in and "roll with it".

Zumanta's Refuge. Ironically, there are people on your team who hated it

That's what I get for running a Soprano's themed event, haha.

Scott

I think they were former members at that event hehehehe

 

[Tyson]

We ran a very "out of town" event one year where the law was very harsh and people got executed (with lots and lots of pre-game OOG warnings saying what the event would be like). Honestly, people didn't like it and we haven't run anything like it since.

Scott

If i'm thinking about the same event I loved it, but figures I would. People didn't realize the situation they were in and "roll with it".

Zumanta's Refuge. Ironically, there are people on your team who hated it

That's what I get for running a Soprano's themed event, haha.

Scott

One of my favorite events, because it took people out of their comfort zones.

But then, I'm the guy who thought it would be fun to take the whole town to the Abyssal Gorge ...