Class and School Breakup September '19

Tantarus said:
Fair enough, but it is a major frustration for rogues. So I think in the long run people might move away from the class after having to deal with it so much. It is just starting to set in again for me after class changing for 2.0 :/ It was the reason I moved away from rogue back in the late 90s too. I just kinda learned to accept it as part of the game though, when I made the choice to go back to rogue this year.
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This is something game runners can help address. We try to remind our npcs of this kind of thing.
  • Don't back up constantly.
    • This kind of move to stop yourself from being surrounded usually means front line fighters are just picking away at you until you die.
  • Let folks sneak around you.
    • It's really easy to spot a rogue in day light and it's a game so your thought is oh don't get backstabbed but, actually it's ok.
  • If you're patrolling an area, play it 10x more oblivious
    • You're at a larp, and aware, the person you're playing is probably bored patrolling all day

As game runners, it's important to think about.
  • If we're doing mod buildings, is there a chance for rogues to participate in other ways?
    • Traps? Parts outside?
  • Can we create a scenario where rogues will be useful from not the back?
    • Surprise Attack adds a whole new layer to things. Where in 1.3 monsters spawning near you was often considered not cool
    • In 2.0 it's a chance to exercise some of those back skills out the gate.
  • Can we ensure that Rogues have a chance to feel special, such as monsters with high thresholds, to create a situation that rewards spending xp in Stealth
  • Really think before you make something immune to curses, as this really hamstrings a lot of rogue powers.
 
jerrett said:
If someone ignores me (as a rogue pc) that's the best possible outcome. If I'm calling base damage and you're distracted by the fighter calling more at your side that's a victory for the rogue. You are correct in not having profs making it much harder to fight things 1v1 (I suspect this is the appeal of a scout). But you have to remember rogue still can access riposte/opportunistic/alchemy at good costs which all allow them to be effective in a 1v1 frontal fight.

Scholar has its own playstyle sub-game, right? You're wildly dangerous from 10 to 20 feet away, less dangerous beyond twenty, and in danger within 10 feet of a foe. Rogues have a similar sub-game of positioning they have to do that just involves angles instead of distance.
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Bullet packets and/or practiced aim can definitely make a scholar dangerous at more than 20 feet away. I actually had some pretty great snipes at my last game.

As for close range, that depends on the Scholar. Oak of the Arcane or Shield can definitely be a game changer. Closing distance on me means you better be able to defend against my KOs, because I am definitely not going to miss you. Against my build, specifically, I’ve got Counteracts to deal with Weapon Strikes.

A Scholar can be a beast at all ranges, if they want to be.
 
Alkalin3 said:
Surprise Attack adds a whole new layer to things. Where in 1.3 monsters spawning near you was often considered not cool
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This so much. I have alot of issue with npcs spawning behind the big bad or right on top of me in the wood line which is where I am sneaking at the time. I have to try and time my attack between waves.
 
Surprise Attack is the only reason I might end up going 100 XP into stealth, arg.

That synergy with my own Binding spells...uggggh...
 
Draven said:
I suspect that Rogues are going to probably vary significantly from chapter to chapter. And, honestly, maybe even site to site.

I've come around to disliking Doom Blow. I'd much prefer it if it included a burst damage factor. Personally, I'd make it do the Doom Carrier, plus damage equal to your current Assassinate damage or your strongest potential United Blow damage.
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I find doom blow suffers from the same problem Terminate and Eviscerate always have. They never land. Almost anything that isn't a crunchy as at least one 'no' on it, it seems.
 
Muir said:
I find doom blow suffers from the same problem Terminate and Eviscerate always have. They never land. Almost anything that isn't a crunchy as at least one 'no' on it, it seems.
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That's crazy most thing in the monster manual only have a few defenses. I've been able to land mine almost every time.
I've found it's best with riposting which means you only really need one.
 
Alkalin3 said:
That's crazy most thing in the monster manual only have a few defenses. I've been able to land mine almost every time.
I've found it's best with riposting which means you only really need one.
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I think that last sentence is the best indicator that Doom Blow isn’t a great capstone.

It’s best use is largely perceived as the equivalent of a pizza topping. By itself, it’s not useless, but it doesn’t really shine, either. Most people who get it do what you do; they get it as an augment to big Assassinates or Eviscerates with Riposte. They don’t buy multiple, generally, because the return-on-investment is only great in that singular scenario.
 
I had more than 1 doom blow and instead sold back them down to 1 for this reason.

Also most monsters only have a few defenses in the database? If chapters arent using only those monsters then that number goes up quite a bit. Also fighting against sentient races will normally make you run into parries, dodges, evades.

As a Rogue though, Sleep/Paralysis blow lands a lot, which is a great take down, especially with opportunity attack.
 
I’m genuinely curious how many chapters actually use the standard DB with regularity vs customizing their own monsters.
 
Draven said:
I’m genuinely curious how many chapters actually use the standard DB with regularity vs customizing their own monsters.
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As am I, but as a player I have no way to tell.
 
Scout is not scary-good: it has none of the synergies that Spell Sword and Adept get, a high cognitive load (you have ten seconds to figure out which of seven possible defense you have left, before we get to protectives, spell parries, racials, reposts and retaliations, that apply to this particular effect), and is worse than a straight class would be in any given situation. I am working to it, but if I had gotten to try a playtest or there was another full rewrite I'd probably just go Fighter and dabble for a couple backstabs instead. If you want something that feels like Scout used to feel, United Blow on a Spell Sword seems to be a better option.
 
can we get a 2022 update on this.
 
Or perhaps a module where Chapter staff (¿and players?) could pull these details live and anonymized
 
While I would love to see an updated version of these statistics (given the 2.1 Beta events being held), I fear that the information pulled from the live CMA would not match the actual classes used (again given the 2.1 Beta events) and that the information pulled from the Beta CMA itself would be incomplete (based on my experience trying to get players to register characters for events in both CMAs.)
 
ZeroDonavan said:
While I would love to see an updated version of these statistics (given the 2.1 Beta events being held), I fear that the information pulled from the live CMA would not match the actual classes used (again given the 2.1 Beta events) and that the information pulled from the Beta CMA itself would be incomplete (based on my experience trying to get players to register characters for events in both CMAs.)
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I know for the 2.1.May Beta there is a question that allows you to upload your build, there could be some solid data mineing available #GloryUntoPivotTables. But that data is uploaded in PDF format, so it would all need to be manually entered which I can only assume would be daunting. and while my brand of ADHD focus which could ignore my clothes catching fire level of my personal NeuroMinority. I completely would get why such wouldn't be available. There are some already rated questions that relate to the builds though, so that might be useful regarding the 2.1.may beta sheets.

in my C.Scholar life now, i was surprised in 2019 when the C.Scholar number was as high as it was and it wouldn't surprise me if this has went down since then.
In my crazy world of loving metrics and the informed things you can try once you have them - Having this information compiled somewhat regularly for players and likely even more regularly for owners (or them the ability to pull it directly within their own chapter) would likely be amazing. Waiting to see who pre-reg's for an event, and then reconciling that number by hand per event is not fun. But being able to track your dataase overall weighted against your break downs per event - could yield some really good tracking when measured against ran mods, ongoing plot, weather, event sites - etc. Polare's comment about site restriction playing a huge part of playing a rogue is no joke. Ive seen people show up event site and ask to change which character they play because of site constraints (not solely for rogue, but usually rogues when it happened.)
 
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