High level ennui.

[Anonymous]

Spoone, 11th level sure... and immediately touted around by a 20th level and thrust into high level good/suckness.

I think that Gid's saying he's done all the standard responses to high level ennui; that he's NPCed, written and directed plot, made new characters, etc. About the only thing I can see him not having done yet is taking a break. Maybe that's what needs to be done. Maybe not.

I do agree that I think there could be some rules improvement for the high end game though.

 

[Balryn]

I would also say that to have more fun at high level, take more dramatic turns for the character. The whole, risk more, play more idealogy. I would redefine character advancement for Balryn as things he's "done" rather than build he has attained, especially in the past 10 levels or so. Think of some unique goals and go for them.

Personally speaking with Balryn and having seen it in other characters as well, I would say there is a definative point around 15th level where skills and advancement take a 3rd seat to roleplay and interaction with players. For most people there is a focus on combat and skills for the beginning seasons of the character (typically the first three seasons or so).

I would love to see some high level skills that didn't break the game, but at some point they would also need to define the game. At 12.5 APL, the average critter needed to conflict wih at 25+ level character should be relying more on wits and RP, rather than power and skills.

Don't get me wrong, I love a good brawl, but it is somewhat problematic to take the JP, Gideon, Brian, Mark and Dan's of the world who have 10 years experience and then give them extra skills, which compounds a "most experienced player" with "most ability/skills" problem and a 5th level character played by someone with only a season or two experience just can't match it.

In game mechanics this has always been a problem with plot / NPCs as well- where NPCs played by 1-2 year NERO players need to be ramped way up stat wise to compete with a 30+ level, 10+ year veteran. Even if you take someone with a real knack for the game- they will be hard pressed to push someone like Dan or JP to the limit (it can be done, just very difficult).

I took a long break from playing Balryn and even took a few more events here and there playing another character. Getting "stuff" was never an issue, in fact I've thrown away more loot than most characters currently in game have ever seen. Trying to interpret new ways of him interacting with people has always been somewhat entertaining. Sometimes more action, sometimes less.

~Barry

 

[most_precious_blood]

Chopper Dave, We have Uh-Oh, Over.

Dude, I posted here in an attempt to avoid all of the a-holes that tend to populate the HQ boards... and all you can do is flame me and complain about the fact that people flamed you on the HQ boards? I thought that you actually wanted to disscuss things. Too bad... was an interesting topic. The fact that I am the only one who used all caps does is not lost on me, and yes I know that living in interesting times is a curse not a blessing. I'm out of here.

-Devon

Actually, you fired first, and what I said was not an attempt to flame anyone, I was voicing my frustrations that few people have offered anything of value there... mostly they have decided that bickering or avoiding the topic at hand is more fun. A few people have apologized, or deleted the offensive posts, which I appreciate greatly.

If I wanted to flame you, I would have done so. On this one you can trust me. I am resisting the urge even now to flame several people on this (and the HQ) thread.

You aren't the only one who uses (or has used) all caps. I never mentioned your name, and I have had these issues with people in general for much longer than I have known you (And will still have them after you're gone)

English is my second language (I didn't even get out of ESL classes until junior year) even though I was born and raised here.

I noticed you avoided comment on the swearing. That's even more annoying than all caps, or the "facts" you bring to the discussion.

I wasn't complaining about people flaming me, I am simply refusing to participate in a public flame war like the one that started on HQ.

If you can't handle an online discussion without losing your temper, swearing, typing in all caps, staying on topic, or crying foul over a fight you wanted to start not going your way, I'd rather that you left anyway.

I apologize for distracting from the topic, and we now return you to our regularly scheduled Gideon.

-Gideon
I.R.G.Y.F.

 

[Maxondaerth]

"With so many high-level characters in game, it's often thought that lower level characters would be useless, or unable to withstand the type of onslaught that say, Gregor or Solomon could take on with only a single sword and their boxer shorts."

Okay let's be fair, Solomon had a sword AND a dagger.

But it was quite the onslaught.

Jeff
Naked one: 1. Onslaught: 0.

 

[Avaran]

Here's a wild idea:

Spellstrikes for Fighters/Blacksmiths:

Requirements:

--Requires Level 20 (or even 25)
--10 profs
--10 (or 15) levels of Blacksmithing
--Read +Write/Read Magic
--A Magic Scroll (Magic Armor Scroll, for example)
--Maybe require a certain number of spells in the spell tree? Perhaps even limit it to being able to read only one school's spells (in other words, you wouldn't be able to spellstrike cross-school spells, limiting the spells/skills you could spellstrike, etc.). The scroll is used up in the process as if it were used normally, and required to be present (possibly readable?) during usage as it is now.
--Possibly make it a times per day skill...or 3 scrolls per spellstrike...

And, basically, it'd work like this: The way it already works, with read/write magic, you can read up to, I think, fourth level scrolls. Why not, with those requirements, make it so when a fighter has a scroll, instead of throwing packings to use up the scroll, let them (to use my example) do an "Activate Spellstrike <scroll>"...and have it work the same as it does now for reading scrolls; if you have a level 1 spell, you can read up to fifth level; level 2 spells, up to seventh, etc. No new effects, it basically uses the existing system, and is generally pretty neat for a high-level to be able to do. Perhaps even have it a quest reward, or a secret guild/society/race/whatever that has to be found/sought out and, from an RP perspective, a test can be taken, extensive training be given, that kind of thing.

I realize I've probably explained this poorly, but hopefully there's someone out there who gets what I'm trying to suggest.

I think there should be rewards and cool abilities that only high-level players can get to, if nothing else, "reward" them for staying alive so long. I mean, how cool is it to be high-level when someone with 10 or 12 or 15 fewer levels (and far less experience) can do the same things a high-level, highly experienced adventurer can do, just more times per day?

Why would I want to start over a character when I've worked so long and so hard to build one up? Why should I have to? I think the Powers That Be? forget that a lot of love, time, care, and attention goes into people's characters, and they don't want to start over or retire them; they have goals and aspirations for that character, and there needs to be some kind of plot AND SKILL reward(s) for high-levels (gotta love those caps for emphasis).

Make those RP skills mean something, dang it!

Heck, I'd say if someone has ten levels of smithing, their refitting time should be lessened; they're more experienced and therefore shouldn't require as much time as someone with only one level of 'smithing.

And why not give high-level formalists another spell-slot per day for every five or ten levels of formals? I mean, they've obviously devoted their time and mental energies on an in-game basis, so why is it unreasonable to assume that they'd also put more time into their other studies, and gain a new spell slot per (X) number of formals.

Why should everything be dumped on the plot team? They already have so much on their plate (and do an awesome job) that it kinda seems unfair (from my point of view) to make them be the one and only means of solving this problem.

Anyway, as Bryan G. has pointed out several times (and given great examples of/for), there are new things that can be added without "breaking" or "adding to" the existing rules setup, or adding effects/carriers that would be great for high-level characters. And, like it or not, a character is most often defined by what he or she can do--the skills he or she possesses. It's what separates the "adventureres" from the "townsfolk." People are defined by what they can (and can't) do. Regarded differently; talked to differently; interacted with differently; and in a game that immitates life (even a fantasy one) you can't expect people to change their nature, to change how things have been done for ages past, and it's unreasonable to ask someone who is still very much into playing their character to start over simply because someone says that they don't want to "break" the game [or whatever the agrument is].

It's like telling an ER doctor to go back to first grade, forget everything he or she knew, and while still being 30 years old, start life over from that point on instead of rewarding all of his or her hard work and allowing them to become a surgeon.

Bleh.

Anyway, I've rambled on enough. If you got this far, WOW! Thanks. =D

--Adam

 

[Nikos_Sonus]

Here's what I posted on the HQ board, BTW the flamewar has pretty much ended.

Highbie ennui is something that every game faces whether it's table top, LARP, MMO, eventually you hit a point where you feel like you've done everything. Depending on the game you may very well have.

People have different motivations for gaming, different aspects of the game that make it fun. For some people it's the plot that keeps them coming back. For others the social aspect of the game continues to be a draw. Some people enjoy getting new skills and cool IG abilities. Then of course there are the people for whom these motivations mix to varying degrees.

The Plot is of course in the hands of the Plot Team. You can be a highbie or lowbie and either way if you don't like the plot then that's that and no amount or rules or socializing can change that. The power to address this motivator rests solely in the hands of the plot team.

The Social aspect is a combination of the atmosphere created by the interactions amongst every member of the chapter from plot to NPCs to PCs. Issues with the social aspect of the game can be very hard to identify and even harder to deal with as they involve everybody in the chapter and must be addressed by everyone.

The Skill/Ability aspect is a function of the rules system. Do rules exist to reward PCs in concrete, IG ways for any path they may choose to pursue? Obviously you can never get this %100 in a LARP setting as it would require either having a supremely convoluted rules set to take into account every way the PCs may want to build their characters or a horribly restrictive rules set that forced everyone into a few rigidly and exhaustively defined roles. That doesn't mean, however, that we can't have fun trying.

The issue I'm seeing raised here is that there are several areas in the NERO Alliance rule set that fail to reward PCs in a concrete IG manner beyond a certain point. Take production skills for example. While it may make sense for your character to take as many levels of smithing, alchemy, etc. as they can get their grubby little hands on for IC reasons. Beyond a certain point, IMO too early a point, the rules stop rewarding you effectively for taking those levels. We see the same thing happen with Formal casting where you could take all those levels in it, it may make sense IC for you to do so, but the rules system fails to effectively reward you beyond a certain point. This can occur early on with certain skills, but becomes endemic once you reach high levels. You eventually hit the point where the question is not what you can do, but how many times can you do it? This can satisfy for a time but eventually it's "ho hum another column". Of course you could pick up other skills but then you run into the IC motivation block. Would my character reasonably want to get these skills? If the answer is No, my pacifistic healer(random example) would not want to pick up some random non-healer skills then a problem exists. You are left with the option of continue an unfulfilling progression, Spirit Forge your character and start a new progression, or play a different character. I would argue that none of these options are very good ones when alterations to the rules could be made that would continue to reward player progression at advanced levels. That way those people motivated by cool new abilities and skills could continue to find the game satisfying without having to give up or heavily modify a beloved character.

In short, you hit a certain level in NERO and skill/ability advancement you're left with a few options. 1)Kill your character...I don't like this option. Some do, I don't. 2)Play a new character...Some people are cool with that, but some want to continue their current one. 3)Spirit Forge!...What if you don't want to change class? Other people have pointed out that they enjoy the game for other reasons like socializing, and plot. Those are %100 valid, and I enjoy them too. The thing is, what if you also like advancing your character's IG abilities? This is where we fall flat. There isn't anything in place to address that. Anything a high level character could aspire to mechanically; Dragon Magic/Shadow Magic, Elemental Knighthood, Vampirism, Lichdom, etc. has either been removed from the rules or reserved for NPCs. This leaves some players with a justifiable feeling of "well what about me?". "What if I want to be a Dragon Mage AND keep my character, where does that leave me"? The reply made by the rules system is "that leaves you S.O.L. kid, here have another column".

I'm not saying that friendships and plot are not fully valid reasons for playing NERO. They are some of the reason I'm still playing. I'm saying that mechanical IG advancement is also an equally valid reason for playing and we do the game and our fellow players a disservice by refusing to address it and suggesting that the people who bring it up perhaps "need a break".

Just some thoughts.

Jonathan

 

[most_precious_blood]

mwahahahahaha

Leave it to me boy to say it like I feel it

Yes, I am tired of feeling like the owners don't want to deal with this problem... the cookie-cutter response is a cop out. Die, die, or die.
Soul forging destroys what i am, effectively removing "Scout Trystan" from game. Killing him off does the same, just like playing a new character does.

One of the best reasons I have not to post again on the HQ board is the temptation to speak my mind about why certain people are fond of high-level characters retiring.

Getting rid of magic items is not going to help. Most of the "Caster in a pocket" scenarios only exist because of the near nonexistant restrictions on gobbo spending. Having seen the formal rules, and how often components are put out, I laugh at the idea that the player-made items could ever unbalance the game. Ha ha ha ha ha, see?

Even Laros and Jasric working full-time couldn't do that under the OLD ritual system. (Trust me, they tried... A *lot*)

It is re-stupulously dangerous and difficil to make items (assuming you have everything to do so)

Spending goblin stamps at least allows people to make up for that, by finding a ritual caster, and having him make you something.

The problem is it hasn't been scaled (much like formal magic.)

both systems are broken, and that contributes to my upset as well. I would much rather patronize a PC ritual caster, but I can't really. They never have what I want, or the components, or the skills necessary.

With gobbies I can get whatever I want, and I don't even have to explain how... I just have it. Now I've just taken potential RP and money away from another high-level.... and then we're both miserable.

-Gideon

 

[Evad]

"With so many high-level characters in game, it's often thought that lower level characters would be useless, or unable to withstand the type of onslaught that say, Gregor or Solomon could take on with only a single sword and their boxer shorts."

Okay let's be fair, Solomon had a sword AND a dagger.

But it was quite the onslaught.

Jeff
Naked one: 1. Onslaught: 0.

Thanks Jeff, after nearly a year in therapy I was nearly cured...but by you rehashing this I once again have that gruesome image of a Hobling in Whitey Tighties charging toward the barn.

Back to square one...I'll send you the bill from my therapist.

 

[Seattle_Jim]

I'd like to note that some chapters may not allow this. Only some chapters have a character retirement policy and some that do would not allow you to rebuild the same character. I'm actually not sure what Seattle's policy on retiring a character to rebuild the same character is.

While this has never come up, we would never allow it.

 

[Maxondaerth]

Thanks Jeff, after nearly a year in therapy I was nearly cured...but by you rehashing this I once again have that gruesome image of a Hobling in Whitey Tighties charging toward the barn.

Back to square one...I'll send you the bill from my therapist.

Hey those were styling and surprisingly warm plaid flannel boxer shorts (with said TW's underneath for decency and support in battle). And that's what you get for having one more backstab than me *shakes fist*.

Jeff

 

[Masticon]

Yes, I am tired of feeling like the owners don't want to deal with this problem... the cookie-cutter response is a cop out. Die, die, or die.
Soul forging destroys what i am, effectively removing "Scout Trystan" from game. Killing him off does the same, just like playing a new character does.

-Gideon

Owners not wanting to deal with this issue is quite the case. All systems have a cap at some point. DnD was capped at 20th level. Vampire was capped at 8th gen and 5 in each Dicipline. Mage 5th sphere. Earthdawn 15th level, which was nearly impossible to reach. Now most of these things have since been expanded but when you look at the 20+ levels, elder level diciplines and spheres you come across a serious power level problem. By this level you are influencing the planes and have the ability to collapse the universe. This becomes increasingly difficult to deal with in a LARP.
A LARP needs to be seriously toned down compared to a table top game simply because things need to be Physrepped. This is not to say that some skills couldn't be put into the game specifically for high level characters but at some point the game will cap out. I am personally a huge fan of the slow in experience that high levels suffer from. It characters somewhat limited in their greatness. When I look at the highest level characters in the alliance I see people at about half again my power level. I can play the same game as these people. If the build didn't taper off then I would be 50th level and people like Shikar would be 300th.
In truth characters should set their skill goals at about 30th level. That way you always have some place to aspire to. I personally will never play a fighter because their skill tree caps at about 20th level and all you do at that point is swing more damage, a few more PTD skills. However, NERO caps fairly quickly. Every skill in the game can be purchased by 10th level. There is a point where you must either diversify or get more of the same.
The reason that so many people indicate this as a Plot rather than a Rules issue is that on this coast we have SO many high level characters that play. If you were one of 2 or 3 25th level characters the slow down wouldn't be so noticable or relivent. The issue in Seattle is that the APL is too close to the cap. The reason highbies don't feel like they have personalized neato skills is that there is too damn many of us. Just look at how many 20+ characters are around. Even if the high level tanks had a cool skill it wouldn't feel that cool because every other tank has it. However, in a game with 2-4 20+ characters and an APL of 8 or 9 the rules aren't the problem and it is the duty of Plot to be including these people in the game in new and interesting ways. We have an interesting Rules problem due our unique character base.
So getting back to the initial issue, the owners don't want to deal with it because it's not a universal problem. When people see that the high level characters don't feel like their level is showing it looks like they're just whining for more power. Honestly I don't feel that the advancement system is broken, just designed for a different character base than currently being played in seattle. This shows in the number of components and scrolls as well (which are based not on player level but number of players). I'd say that the treasure policy does not permit a high level high power game to function properly. Because at your level you should be persuing magic items and titles, not skills.

Marc

 

[Anonymous]

Actually, at a high level, I think someone should be pursuing whatever they want, not necessarily magic items or titles.

 

[Masticon]

Actually, at a high level, I think someone should be pursuing whatever they want, not necessarily magic items or titles.

That was my point. But regardless they should be persuing In-Game things, be they items, status, bounty on their head, a castle, an army, or a knighthood. Rather than persuing skills.

 

[Anonymous]

I don't see why they shouldn't be pursuing skills. Shoot, one of the new spells last edition was from a PC. Admittedly retired by the time it went through, but a PC nonetheless.

Natasha's Earth Bombardment.

(Yes, I'm a geek)

 

[Anonymous]

That was my point. But regardless they should be persuing In-Game things, be they items, status, bounty on their head, a castle, an army, or a knighthood. Rather than persuing skills.

In other words, you're saying that highbies should be advocating "world advancement".

This can tread a dangerously fine line, leaving the character bordering on PC/NPC status. If Plot needs "that character" to jump-start a module or even a complete storyline, where does the line get drawn? Is there even a line to be drawn? Has the character suddenly been relegated to PNPC status? Will the player ever be allowed to regain the character, to play as they wish? Or will the character remain the property of plot everafter?

Just a few things to think about...food for thought.

Spoone

 

[Balryn]

It is indeed a very complicated issue to have a high level character become entwined in Plot without being entangled in Plot. I as Balryn have been reverted twice to a "plot controlled" PC, once as an entity in the Dreamlands and another as an gypsy elder. In both instances I kept almost complete control of the character becuase I was running other parts of plot and didn't want to conflict with other plot members work when I PC'ed Balryn.

Unfortunately, building an advanced character through plot usually means a specific "local" only entity. It doesn't translate well into other chapters- yet this is currently not a problem in Seattle since it's the only chapter on the west. It also somewhat forces characters to stay in a limited IG environment and survive the high turnover associated in plot. (it was a problem when Oregon, NW and Cali existed)

Balryn for example has been knighted, had two keeps, a secret lair, a bunch of troops, a different family, many ships and several guilds over the years. As plot members go by- some think they are cool ideas and run with them and some "axe" the old plotlines right away. It entirely depends on the plot group and even how well they work with other chapters. There is nothing from a rules perspective saying I can or cannot have them and no system for keeping track of it all (especially across chapters).

Now on top of that, being entwined in plot usually lumps you with one or two plot members who typically handle the said items and if they are gone or unavailable the various available plot members don't have anything to run with. You may or may not have what you expected or what you previously earned. Rather than have X skill or something on your card, you are left with nothing but what is on your card. Case in point- Balryn has a bunch of things he talks about in his conversations that do not interact with plot and are almost entirely pc specific history items, but I don't feel the need to impose a character history except through what I can phys rep ingame. So unless I bring ten buddies with me to an event, you probably won't be seeing any guilds Balryn has membership in.

Under the current staff, I have never had them ask to have my PC start a mod or what not and I'm not sure if they do it with others or not. It does however take a large amount of leeway in the creation of plot when you involve a PC as a central role, because you are infact placing them in the driver's seat.

 

[Kauss]

Balryn for example has been knighted, had two keeps, a secret lair, a bunch of troops, a different family, many ships and several guilds over the years. As plot members go by- some think they are cool ideas and run with them and some "axe" the old plotlines right away. It entirely depends on the plot group and even how well they work with other chapters. There is nothing from a rules perspective saying I can or cannot have them and no system for keeping track of it all (especially across chapters).

Well to be honest, most of that isnt things that can cross chapters. I mean a knight in one land, is a forener in another, and there are (at least here) rules for using/transfering the titles.
However about stuff, be it land/caravans/ships/houses whatever, just ask for some kind of tag when you get it in the 1st place. The reason so much of that gets dropped is becouse diffrent chapters have diffrent rules on the matter, and also becouse a lot of players have things that they have no support of in any kind of writing. We have had many visitng people claim one noble title or another, many many ships, talks of owned castles and such, but they dont want local plot to "mess" with them, so they dont want them entered into the system, and so they get axed (I know I would do it.) Note that some people did work with local plot and got what they wanted. Kreger got local knighthood, gregor has local ships.

So the lesson is, get it in signed writting. It may still be LCO, but other plot is more likly to look at it with a better eye.

 

[Balryn]

So the lesson is, get it in signed writting. It may still be LCO, but other plot is more likly to look at it with a better eye.

That doesn't address the point however- if I wanted LCO stuff for a character I wouldn't be playing NERO. A good majority of the reason NERO does well is transfering to/from other chapters.

I have everything in writing regarding my stuff and always have, but then again it's still rather pointless to get it in writing because most of it can't be phys repped and detracts from playing the game live and in person. I could have 50,000 ships and unless a mod is specifically written to be "on the ship" then it serves no IG use. Likewise, players don't need tags for family estates because they are "out of the area" and can't be phys repped. More so, a tag for any of the "other" items is pretty much worthless, plot at any time, for any reason, take said item away. If it can't come phys repped ingame and on site- a tag is a rather meaningless thing because no one should see it anyhow.

For the few things that could be reasonably phys repped (a very small caravan perhaps), it should get phys repped so that the player base can interact with it appropriately.

The point I was trying to make is that because it's not transferable, trying to say one should advance at higher levels by attaining such things isn't supported by the rules. The minute you change chapters or even plot people, two years of effort can vanish. It would be nice to have some of the noble and craftsman titles transfer to chapters for a RP perspecitve, but the plot system isn't based to support it with rules for each chapter to abide by.

One of the reasons I like playing a gypsy is that by nature they support in RP idealogy what the rules system currently provides for things like what you have, titles, etc and moving into different lands with nothing else but a backpack and a sword. Even though I have plenty of them, a ship is a rather pointless thing to say you have in NERO.

 

[Seattle_Jim]

That doesn't address the point however- if I wanted LCO stuff for a character I wouldn't be playing NERO. A good majority of the reason NERO does well is transfering to/from other chapters.

I have everything in writing regarding my stuff and always have, but then again it's still rather pointless to get it in writing because most of it can't be phys repped and detracts from playing the game live and in person. I could have 50,000 ships and unless a mod is specifically written to be "on the ship" then it serves no IG use. Likewise, players don't need tags for family estates because they are "out of the area" and can't be phys repped. More so, a tag for any of the "other" items is pretty much worthless, plot at any time, for any reason, take said item away. If it can't come phys repped ingame and on site- a tag is a rather meaningless thing because no one should see it anyhow.

For the few things that could be reasonably phys repped (a very small caravan perhaps), it should get phys repped so that the player base can interact with it appropriately.

The point I was trying to make is that because it's not transferable, trying to say one should advance at higher levels by attaining such things isn't supported by the rules. The minute you change chapters or even plot people, two years of effort can vanish. It would be nice to have some of the noble and craftsman titles transfer to chapters for a RP perspecitve, but the plot system isn't based to support it with rules for each chapter to abide by.

One of the reasons I like playing a gypsy is that by nature they support in RP idealogy what the rules system currently provides for things like what you have, titles, etc and moving into different lands with nothing else but a backpack and a sword. Even though I have plenty of them, a ship is a rather pointless thing to say you have in NERO.

I disagree. There are reasons to have ships, besides the coin. Ships can allow you to accomplish things in down time actions. They can be plot hooks. While you may consider them pointless, others do not. Family estates do count as something as well and frankly, if you think you had one in Iyave, you might want to consider trying to find it again, because that alone could lead to plot, since you know, no more Iyave and who knows if it even exists any more. I never have bought into the idea "it's not on site, I don't need plot to approve it" line of thinking. There are rules that govern buying estates and other items in the book and there is system that is in beta in our chapter and will soon be full tilt for everyone. I agree that you loose things from chapter to chapter sometimes... Luinil lost all of his caravans, jewelry business, contacts, etc. and I would like to see a situatuion where that can be avoided and perhaps it can be one of the goals for the new Alliance Plot commitee that is being formed.

 

[Balryn]

I disagree. There are reasons to have ships, besides the coin. Ships can allow you to accomplish things in down time actions. They can be plot hooks. While you may consider them pointless, others do not.

I guess that's a difference in game style / opinion, I try to maximize the live part of the game. Trying to apply too much to the "down time" of NERO breaks the entire system. It's a LARP, not a table top RPG. Developing things that can't be phys repped takes me out of living in a fantasy world and back into a kitchen with dice and bead draws.

The "story" part of NERO continues on while daily lives are going on. That doesn't really support the IGness that someone like Kauss with a good amount of blacksmithing apparently sits around for 28 days a month and doesn't make a sword and that he only makes one every forth weekend. The system breaks down the more you try to hold it true to OOG time mechanics.

If plot wants to throw me a hook, they can also just have someone walk in the door or if a ship is needed they can just give me one (since they can take it away just as easily). The reality of using things like estates and ships as a method of plot hooks doesn't mean anything of value, since I should receive a similiar number of plot hooks if I'm a broke vagrant without even a blanket to curl up on. Indeed it may be a different type of plot hook, but I should still receive the same amount and effort playing a bum, a noble, a guard or a captain of a ship.

I wouldn't consider them pointless if anything happened regarding them, but the only point of having them is to specifically flavor the plot for IG. I would value them because I got a neat mod, not because I have a ship tag. I would be just as happy with a good mod written about a flower. I should be able to get the flavor to the right style just by asking the plot team to write up a flavor of plot regardless of what items my character owns. If plot wants to bring up things from my character's past to base a mod or plot arc on it's all good with me, but having that actually occur becomes entirely a point of whether or not a plot person wants to write that type of plot or not for a character. If a plot member wants to write a storyline were Mykell becomes angelic and the savior of the town, they could.

Yet as said earlier, Iyave went away. So that means an IG reason exists for anything going "poof". If an experience character had spent the effort on getting something more tangible (like a magic sword) then you plot / game mechanics are little more aimed at having that removed IG and having interaction occur to lose it (which in the case of Iyave, there was interaction IG, but it was an overall plot / staff decision to change it).

A little further to the same game mechanic idea, if I actually had a skill or thing I paid for tied to my character card it couldn't be taken away. So the idea of spending effort / advancement for a higher level character becomes either to get more of the same skills and to get more stuff you can lose for various reasons, some of which may be in your control and some may not.

~B