High Orcs

norman b

Squire
So the concerns in the other thread about Biata sparked me to actually start a discussion on the abysmal racials that High Orcs receive. These are my opinions and I would like to hear other's opinions on them.

Requirement: Must wear full green make up and Tusks.
This is similar to High Ogres, Kin, Dark Elves, and Stone Elves (although I feel white is much nicer). All of these races get unlimited racials they can buy (Resolute, any for kin, Resist Spell, Resist Command). High Orcs get Resist Fear

Resist Fear.
The one racial High Orcs get is Resist Fear... One of the most useless as half the effects can be resisted with Resist Command. Terror is niche and most of the time, isn't used by plot teams. Also, go Barbarian, no face make up and you get Resist Element.

Half cost on Weapon skills.
This seems cool on the surface. But it's a one time benefit (which I know they moved away from with Racial Prof, Slay, Assassinate, Dodge and Resist Magic). It grants a Fighter 16.5 (16 rounded) build saved (Archery, Thrown Weapon, Weapon Master, Style Master). A Scholar is 30.5 (30 rounded) build saved. These are maximums unless you went partial skills, but for the sake of this argument we will stick to this. Now this saves more than any other "half cost" racial, but I feel they all have other benefits that outstrip those and have way less requirements. So this feels kind of lame in comparison.


Now here is a race that could be overlooked as they have two of the worst racials and have one of the worst requirements (make up and tusks). I feel there should be something that can be figured out to give them something that isn't found in another race or is becoming of full face make up.

Ideas? Thoughts? Disagreements? Agreements?
 

Draven

Count
I think Resist Fear is a garbage racial. It's the nichiest of niche. A lot of Plot teams avoid even throwing Terror because it's unfun to deal with.

I'd much prefer the following:

1) Auto-proficiency with all melee weapons (in the world of non-DA/MS/Golem, scholars with weapons aren't really a big deal).

OR

2) Resist Binding (THEY'RE JUST TOO STRONG!)
 

Draven

Count
I'd also be okay with Racial Resolute as an alternative Racial, assuming Resolute was reworked to deny Death.
 
I actually agree that Resist Fear seems like a poor trade-off (even with half cost weapons) for having to wear tusks for two days straight (did it once, took a week to get rid of the blisters).

That said, I am going to give the same response I gave on the Biata thread. I don't think this forum is appropriate for this. This forum is to discuss changes made, not to recommend new changes. If you want to make a proposal, you should be contacting your owner, not posting it here.

-MS
 

ASFDan

Scholar
Now this saves more than any other "half cost" racial, but I feel they all have other benefits that outstrip those and have way less requirements.

Don't underestimate the value of build not spent. It's one of the single most powerful things you can get in our system. Is it worth enough? I don't know, but you shouldn't trivialize it.
 

Draven

Count
I actually agree that Resist Fear seems like a poor trade-off (even with half cost weapons) for having to wear tusks for two days straight (did it once, took a week to get rid of the blisters).

That said, I am going to give the same response I gave on the Biata thread. I don't think this forum is appropriate for this. This forum is to discuss changes made, not to recommend new changes. If you want to make a proposal, you should be contacting your owner, not posting it here.

-MS

Unlike the Biata thread, actual changes occurred to the racials for Orcs. Wouldn't it be appropriate to discuss alternative options to the processed changes?
 

Vry_Young_Pup

Rogue
New Hampshire Staff
Assistant General Manager
Don't forget the +2 body Orcs get every 10 body points. This gives a high level Orc a massive increase in total body over other races, especially as a fighter.
 

Durnic

Knight
+2 body is huge, half-cost from weapons is pretty slick. I agree Resist Fear isn't great.

Reach out to your owner if you wish to see this end up as a proposal. *cough cough*
 

Muir

Fighter
I actually like the half cost weapon skills from a worldbuilding perspective. It means that even High Ork scholars can be expected to know how to swing a stick, because they can get a decent weapon for what most scholars pay to pick up Staff.
 

norman b

Squire
I'm not asking for proposals for something new. I am simply asking how people feel about the race. There was one change, but getting feedback on the race as a whole can help make people get a better idea of why the change was the change made or possibly help encourage a proposal (in the form @Durnic suggested).

I feel the change was crippling. Previously, I would have played an Orc for their RP and their racials, as any class. Now, I wouldn't play it, even if I was ritually changed. I would take a rez.
 

Ragnarok

Rogue
Alliance Rules
Chicago Staff
Marshal
As someone who plays a Barbarian I can honestly say that I hate the resist fear ability. I can count on one hand the number of events I've used mine and usually have to run at the thing throwing fear just to use them.

That being said the roleplay involved with being a Barbarian is what has kept me as one and probably will keep me as one of whatever they become.

In terms of high orcs I considered playing one and as they currently stand are, in my opinion, better than Barbarians but with the current play test rules orcs kinda just make me cry.

That being said again I do take to into huge consideration when picking a race and a high orc scout is something I wouldn't mind rolling around with.
 

Muir

Fighter
I'm not asking for proposals for something new. I am simply asking how people feel about the race. There was one change, but getting feedback on the race as a whole can help make people get a better idea of why the change was the change made or possibly help encourage a proposal (in the form @Durnic suggested).

I feel the change was crippling. Previously, I would have played an Orc for their RP and their racials, as any class. Now, I wouldn't play it, even if I was ritually changed. I would take a rez.

Has the roleplay changed?
 

norman b

Squire
Has the roleplay changed?

No, but I would rather play a barbarian now. The point being is that these could steer people away from full make up races (and into Kin). The roleplay is not enough incentive to play a mechanically lesser race when I can find a much more rewarding one in a no make up race. Why have the race at all at that point?
 
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Gilwing

Administrator
Alliance Logistics
Alliance Owner
No, but I would rather play a barbarian now. The point being is that these could steer people away from full make up races (and into Kin). The roleplay is not enough incentive to play a mechanically lesser class when I can find a much more rewarding one in a no make up race. Why have the race at all at that point?

Having to get to pick any racial with unlimited purchases makes Kin a way better choice, not any thing that is done to any other race.
 

Muir

Fighter
Having to get to pick any racial with unlimited purchases makes Kin a way better choice, not any thing that is done to any other race.

Not only any racial, but any two plus claws!
 

Draven

Count
And are a max of shortsword length.
 

Muir

Fighter
Considering that damage aura and monster slayer's power is being vastly reduced under the new rules, while elemental blade and earth blade are not, and spending build on claws is optional, I'm still going to call it a net positive.
 

Durnic

Knight
Claws still must also be purchased, you don't get 'em for free. I think some folks (not any of you here in the thread, but some I've spoken to) have glanced over that fact.
 
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