"I search you"

Robb G

Baron
Frank Wiccan said:
it would becouse the new players have to stay back becouse they are one or two hit kills
they choose to stay back.

Frank Wiccan said:
they dont swing for a lot of damage so dont get the killing blow
completely irrelavent to a killing blow. wait till someone else drops an enemy, killing blow, search, repeat.

Frank Wiccan said:
they are new and dont fight for what they deserve
i'm confused... what do they "Deserve"?

Frank Wiccan said:
healers and spell casters that are low level dont get to kill anything and they save lives and help
my first event i wandered off alone a level one caster.. pumped all my spells into a goblin, killed it, and got a silver. i never save anyone.

Frank Wiccan said:
I was extremly lucky to be with a group all by my first event that was very nice and devided all tresure equaly and thats great but not ever one gets that
your entire argument is relative to your personal experience. You have already found an IG solution... that group. but not everyone is you, and not everyone plays the same game you do. that's the beauty of Alliance. You need to think more globally about the game as a whole.
 

Kayden

Scholar
The other thing to consider is that just because people complain about an issue once, doesn't mean its a constant problem IG. I have been to several events where it seemed that the monsters were vending machines and I was breaking them open and taking handfuls of coin. Other times I search ever kill and end up with 12 coppers and 2 silvers.

The other side of what you're saying that I disagree with is that, I'm not a big fighter yet, but when i'm in the middle of a large battle, if I'm on the front line, I don't stop to search I keep the line pressed forward. So someone has got to be searching these kills, because there's never any treasure left when I come back to look for it.

In my opinion, if you're low level and your staying back so you don't die, but you're really not doing anything, you don't really deserve any treasure from those monsters. Almost every event i've seen, there has been at least one lower level mod to go on, usually with some nice loots to share among those who went. often a great chance for low levels to be involved, fight on the front lines and not die, and get what they EARNED with their hard work.
 

Ezri

Knight
HQ Staff
Those are all issues that can be resolved with roleplay in-character. They do not need rules support.
 

chriso

Newbie
I find I must agree with Ezri. There is much that can be done in game and in character to both garner treasure and to help out your fellow PCs. (And NPCs! Those guys never get treasure, poor things...)

The rules are in place on a national/global level, and each person's experience will be different. I'd say go with the character concept you've created, and deal with it all from inside the game. I've found the system balances pretty well in the end.

As for fairness, complete fairness would be silly, as each person would get their share of treasure, perhaps at logistics. I prefer the option of searching. (Well, in my case, I prefer the option of leaving the poor goblin I just First Aided his copper piece. He likely needs it more than I do, and it feels wrong.) ;)

ChrisO
 

markusdark

Knight
My first 8 months of NERO (which was pre-split) was spent waking up at 6:30am so that I could go to the battle sites of the night before and look for all the coinage that was missed in the dark so that I could scrape together enough to cover my build. My character was completely an RP character and, as such, had all but zero useage in combat situations. (It took me a half dozen events before something I actually hit didn't say "no effect" to it).

One gal in a LARP decided to hide a wanted item in her bra. She didn't realize a friend of mine saw her do that and when he took her down and said "I search you," she said "physical search." He knew where it was, she said it, he went for it and, well, let's just say that the game was on hold for a good hour or so.

During one major encounter, the head NPC dropped the loot for the encounter when he died/dissipated. An enterprising PC found the stash and took it all. After the enounter, there were a plethora of pissed off players (not characters) over the fact that all the gold was stolen. Now, in this game, when it comes time for the big payoff, it is like hitting a pinata in broad daylight so that everyone can see it an no one can steal it.

Searching, I feel, is more of a game mechanic than an RP situation. There shouldn't be any really drawn out issues about getting the gold from the goblin. Just like "I carry you" - I've never told the person really carry me. Usually, there is a major battle that requires NPC's to regenerate and come out as another critter to hit and if every one waited for a detailed search, then it would take forever. Now one PC to another who is rolling him, by all means, make that bastard work for his gold.
 

henrythemad

Artisan
Dave, I would have likely given the treasure to the second person as the first person didn't actually play out any searching or even pay attention to what he/she was searching.

IMO, it takes as much time to search someone as it does for that person to OOG pull out treasure - so if the first searcher runs off or attacks something else while I'm digging out coin, and Sneaky McSneaksneak comes up and searches me, then the person gets it who is the one who hangs around long enough for me to get my treasure out of my pouch. Alternately, if I'm of the "crumbles to dust/disapears/goes gaseous at 0 body" variety, 8/10 times I will put my treasure on the ground - even if someone says that they are searching me, because, you know.. pile of dust on the ground.

I have yet to see a heated argument about any of this... but it seems that others have, perhaps a two line specific action about searching could be put in the rulebook..? "You must kneel, place a hand on the shoulder of he target of the search and say 'I search you' and then wait X seconds to complete the search." *shrug* Is it that much of an issue? I'm not sure that it is. But I have seen very inattentive searchers get annoyed when I haven't handed them coin, AND I've seen NPCs who've been totally annoying about searching, a hard and fast rule wipes all that out. But no amount of rules will wipe out asshattery.

The 6 or 8 times I've ever searched a creature as any of my three PCs I've crouched or kneeled down and looked at the person I was searching and informed them that I was searching them. I typically give a bit of a narative "I check your weapons.. does your armor look salvagable?.. I look for potions or alchemy.." I'm detailed and if asked to describe my search I do so and generally have a good time with it. I've also seen people searching and the NPC being searched puts them through the perverbial wringer "describe your search.. no .. no.. no.. ok, wait 5 seconds.. you find nothing."

On the other hand, from the NPC side of thing, I rarely ask people to describe the search unless it's something that I think is not obvious (like, for instance if I'm wearing armor or holding weapons that can be taken), I typically start pulling out my treasure and whomever is the person to touch my shoulder and tell me they searching gets it. I *do* get to be a bit of a stickler if someone is standing and not looking at me, though, and will typically wait for them to look back to me before I hand off treasure - because saying "I search you" and scanning the field of battle for foes seem to be conflicting actions to me.

HtM
 

Mike Ventrella

Duke
Owner
Moderator
HQ Staff
We are not a tabletop game. There is no marshal watching you at all times to make sure you get your share of the treasure. And you do not need treasure in order to go up levels.

Whether you get treasure or not, just like whether you get plot or not, is all based on your abilities in-game. If you don't feel like you are getting your share, find an in-game solution.
 

Mike Ventrella

Duke
Owner
Moderator
HQ Staff
henrythemad said:
I have yet to see a heated argument about any of this... but it seems that others have, perhaps a two line specific action about searching could be put in the rulebook..? "You must kneel, place a hand on the shoulder of he target of the search and say 'I search you' and then wait X seconds to complete the search."
Good idea .

But seriously, that should be done anyway. We ARE a roleplaying game, after all.
 
I would say that in the past event I saw several instances of NPC's who said (and it wasn't in a wave battle situation) you needed to really look on their bodies for loot and I enjoyed it. Obviously you can put your hands on their feet and say "I search your boots if you don't want me to take them off" if it comes to that, but if both people are okay with it the more role play the better!
 

Hernando

Newbie
For Frank's particular example I was the NPC in question. I was playing a kobold assassin who had spent the last couple of hours skirmishing with the town because I was instructed to entertain the players. By what I was witnessing the PCs were having a lot of fun looking over their shoulders and making sure none of their pals got waylayed so I kept up my shenanagins rather than running into the middle of the cabins and dying.

When the time came that my character finally died I did ask the PC who was searching me if he was ok with actually physically searching me. To my knowledge there was no other combat happening in the area so I figured that having a PC actually stick his or her hand in my leather pouch wasn't dangerous and would only enhance the in game experience. While this was happening a few other PCs came over and they all had a great time as they searched this poor downed kobold's entire person even after the treasure of 1 gold was already pilfered from the obvious leather pouch on my side. By all reason and logic the PCs should have stopped searching me after they got the gold, but they continued to search this kobold's pockets, shirt, pants, and boots. While they were all doing this two monsters came out of the woods and attacked the gathered group that was performing the search and got a little spooked. I disapatied and hauled *** out of the combat zone the moment I heard the running footsteps.

The main point is that the PCs took the opprotunity to continue RPing searching despite the obvious lack of treasure. From that we can conclude the PCs were having a great time role playing rifling through a corpse. It allowed them to show how greedy or inquisitve their characters are and I'm glad I could offer them that service. Secondly, there were a bunch of PCs there that can now tell their pals IG and OOG that "Oh man, this one time at Caldaria there was this kobold running around at night. After a few hours of harassing the town we dropped the sucker and started searching him. He was a pretty sneaky guy so we thought he must have had something hidden on him besides the gold coin in his pouch. While we were searching him though these two shadowy beasts blasted out from behind the bushes and scarred the pants off of us. I've never had that much fun running through the woods. I was actually scared.". Seeing Frank recount the story of how he ran through the woods makes me happy that I NPCed that event and made the choice I did regarding having the PCs search me. If I had just given the treasure to someone who is stood over me and lethargiclly said "I search you. *yawn*" then disapiate Frank and the other PCs would have been robbed of an opprotunity to RP and a great story for events to come.

I guess my point is that more RP intensive searches enhance the quality of our game but if combat is in the area then it is a good idea to get your prone body out of the area so no one steps on your face.
 
yup it was a lot of fun

the Waylaying Kobold in the middle of the night had us back to back and that too was a blast!

FW
 

Hernando

Newbie
Frank Wiccan said:
yup it was a lot of fun

the Waylaying Kobold in the middle of the night had us back to back and that too was a blast!

FW
I'm glad you had a good time!
 
I was the one who searched your boots! And I had fun doing it, seriously when I am an NPC I am going to hide stuff there! *major spoiler* :D

Seriously though, I have to admit I had my moment of thrill when Elriyon and I were quite lazily and foolishly sitting there in the light chatting it up and (you) the random kobold comes up and pegs us with two sleep gas poisons. However my fears were allayed when both of us had poison shields and Elriyon reacted with an almost blinding speed, "I grant you the gift of death, I grant you the gift of death". Not to mention those were commands at Elves... ;)

Yea, that was a first time experience for Eldarion... Never knew Death spells were soooo sexy!
 

henrythemad

Artisan
My only qualm in general with "describe your search" or "physically search me" is that, frankly, we don't all play the same game here.

What I mean by this is that not everyone gets the same enjoyment out of particular activites as everyone else. Some people play the game to get gutwrenching RP that rips their character up inside, they enjoy plotlines that shatter their character concept and force them to play through the painfull growth of that charater, others have a character that they've designed and they don't ever want that character to change (or perm) because they put a lot of time and effort into designing the character, for some the RP ends when they get in their cabins - for others they wake up and are immediately IG until when they go to sleep at night, other people play to run through the woods and pound on people with foam - still others play because they enjoy singing and dancing in costume and want a fun venue for that - others play because they want to see their ideas inflicted on others, um, I mean want to share their creative ideas with other people and see them come to life. I don't profess to cover all categories of players here.

As long as one person's play style doesn't interfere with another person's style - then all is well (vis a vi we do have rules about not talking OOG in IG areas, etc) but as an NPC and especially plot writers, we have to be careful about inflicting our playstyle on other people. So with that in mind, if someone wants to just say "I search you" and be done with it - we should allow that as long as there aren't rules that say otherwise.

Note: I'm very much in the "enjoys 'describe your search'" camp on things.
HtM

Ps: Also, how much sense does it make for random troll #13 to go to great lengths to hide it's coin on it's person - it's a big tough troll and figures it won't loose in a fight. Kobolds, yeah, totally I can see..the sneaky bastiches. ; )
 
Hernando said:
For Frank's particular example I was the NPC in question. I was playing a kobold assassin who had spent the last couple of hours skirmishing with the town because I was instructed to entertain the players. By what I was witnessing the PCs were having a lot of fun looking over their shoulders and making sure none of their pals got waylayed so I kept up my shenanagins rather than running into the middle of the cabins and dying.

When the time came that my character finally died I did ask the PC who was searching me if he was ok with actually physically searching me. To my knowledge there was no other combat happening in the area so I figured that having a PC actually stick his or her hand in my leather pouch wasn't dangerous and would only enhance the in game experience. While this was happening a few other PCs came over and they all had a great time as they searched this poor downed kobold's entire person even after the treasure of 1 gold was already pilfered from the obvious leather pouch on my side. By all reason and logic the PCs should have stopped searching me after they got the gold, but they continued to search this kobold's pockets, shirt, pants, and boots. While they were all doing this two monsters came out of the woods and attacked the gathered group that was performing the search and got a little spooked. I disapatied and hauled *** out of the combat zone the moment I heard the running footsteps.

The main point is that the PCs took the opprotunity to continue RPing searching despite the obvious lack of treasure. From that we can conclude the PCs were having a great time role playing rifling through a corpse. It allowed them to show how greedy or inquisitve their characters are and I'm glad I could offer them that service. Secondly, there were a bunch of PCs there that can now tell their pals IG and OOG that "Oh man, this one time at Caldaria there was this kobold running around at night. After a few hours of harassing the town we dropped the sucker and started searching him. He was a pretty sneaky guy so we thought he must have had something hidden on him besides the gold coin in his pouch. While we were searching him though these two shadowy beasts blasted out from behind the bushes and scarred the pants off of us. I've never had that much fun running through the woods. I was actually scared.". Seeing Frank recount the story of how he ran through the woods makes me happy that I NPCed that event and made the choice I did regarding having the PCs search me. If I had just given the treasure to someone who is stood over me and lethargiclly said "I search you. *yawn*" then disapiate Frank and the other PCs would have been robbed of an opprotunity to RP and a great story for events to come.

I guess my point is that more RP intensive searches enhance the quality of our game but if combat is in the area then it is a good idea to get your prone body out of the area so no one steps on your face.
You are welcome to NPC in Chicago anytime!

you boil it down right... if those pcs didn;t want to "physically search" or "describe search" then you would have just handed over your gold... dissapated and gone back to Monster desk or done whatever was assigned to you next. You have the right idea as I see it... and the players involved seemed to love that you did that.

Nods to you sir!

If a player really isn't into the "search" thing they can just put a hand on a shoulder and "search" the NPC. If they want to do more.. maybe they can ask if the NPC is comfortable with it... It all comes down to what you want the game to be. I like it when PCs "act out" refitting armor for a minute as oposed to tapping on the chest a little... or when they look like they are honestly assesing a persons vitals as oppsed to just putting a hand on a chest ( or shoulder as gender appropriate :D) in order to "healing arts" but I think that it might not be for everyone and Im not going to force anyone to do it.

Paul
 
More RP certainly = more awesome and better! :)
 

Lugo

Newbie
From a purely mechanical stand point, there is a reason that when I PC I do all of my searches on a 3 count. It gets my attention away from the world at large, and directed at who ever I'm searching. And oh yeah, it gets me waylayed.

As the one who gets searched, Ill admit it, I'm more likely to make sure the person who crouches down and pays attention to me while they 'search'; then I am the one who stands over me at sword point looking over their shoulder for the next goblin to swat for their loot. Mostly because more then once I have gotten the hairy eyeball from latter party while I was trying to dig out the 'phat lootz'.
 
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