In Game Economy

Talen

Adept
Inaryn said:
Wraith said:
I really do think that magic item proliferation is making this problem worse as well. After all, when a heavy percentage of the game has Arcane Armor and magic weapons, no one is spending out any coin on blacksmithed goods. Same goes for 1/day items replacing potions and scrolls.
Until we take a good hard look at the armor system, getting rid of arcane armor will just punish players who can't afford real armor.
I always looked at Arcane armor as being a method of punishing players that wore real armor instead, personally.

"What, you're carrying that mail shirt and metal bracers around? Same armor points, I'm in a tunic and breeches."

Seriously, there's plenty of inexpensive options for making armor worth a respectable number of points. But that's another discussion entirely.
 

Octaine

Artisan
Please explain this to me...I go to chapter G and get an LCO regen set, cast it at chapter G then go to say HQ which DOES NOT ALLOW LCO items outside its chapter...I resurect but my regen is LCO chapter G....now what.
 

Polare

Count
Alliance Rules
Moderator
Seattle Staff
Octaine said:
Please explain this to me...I go to chapter G and get an LCO regen set, cast it at chapter G then go to say HQ which DOES NOT ALLOW LCO items outside its chapter...I resurect but my regen is LCO chapter G....now what.
For what it's worth, this is a reason that Regenerate is explicitly excluded from the "you can buy LCO scrolls with gobbies" lists for Oregon and Seattle. This, and a few other rituals, were excluded due to the problems they cause during transferring (and the change from "you have it" to "you don't").
 

evi1r0n

Baron
I know this is a bit off topic but it's been brought up in a number of threads. Just curious, why doesn't HQ allow LCO items?
 

jpariury

Duke
The original intent of the magic items categories was that Restricted meant "check if they'll let you before you try to bring it in" and LCO meant "This is never meant to leave the chapter" (i.e. Local Chapter Only). HQ sticks to the spirit of the rules in this regard, most other chapters do not.
 

Jim

Scholar
jpariury said:
Jim said:
Have your npcs only accept coin, not gems or other forms of treasure.
That becomes problematic in situations where players have obtained those gems or other forms of treasure in order to help the chapter out previously with a coin issue. Then you're definitely dealing with a customer service issue - players thought they were doing a nice thing for the chapter with the understanding that the treasure is intended to be as usable as coin. If that's not the case, then players are less likely to be willing to give up their coin, which is counter to the goal.
Well if that is the case, then that particular tactic may not work. I do expect any plot team to be able to figure out a game plan that works for their chapter.
 

Dave

Artisan
Wow, a lot of good ideas posted.

I like the ideas of having an upkeep on Magic items, which would help devaluate them and get coin into the system. If this isn't done alliance wide, I'm certain that some chapters may start putting it on as a flaw to some items. NJ's celestial circle of power eats 5 silver when it ID's magic items; this is one way we get back money, but I think the upkeep would be much better. (Plus getting a 1 time ever cure light wounds item off a creature that cost you 5 silver is a bit steep, while a 30 AA is a steal.)

We should not allow PCs to make 'change' during logistics. By all means if they want to trade in 10 coppers for a silver, logistics would be stupid not to accept it - but the reverse costs logistics about $1.50. If PCs know there is no change, they can IG make sure they have a few coppers and silvers.

Another step down-powering magic items could also be having them functions only once per weekend. I think Production skills functioning once per weekend would also be helpful (maybe get 10 pp per craftsman - workshop gives you 50% more). Like high magic, you don't have to spend it all if your not sure, but you certainly can if you just want to get it out of the way. Our system also becomes more unified as all production/MI/formal all work the same, and the only skills that renew at the end of the day are the standard PC skills.

I just think in general we put out way too much treasure (especially as we get higher level). At the symposium, we discussed reworking the treasure policy, and I hope that we'll see a lot more PC created items and less production/MI's come out of the treasure policy.

I'm not a fan of paying for max outs. I rather have an IG way to bring the coin back. I like the idea that a person who roleplays all weekend in the tavern gets the same build as someone who is on the front lines of every battle. In NJ I mainly put out 'puzzle plot'. PCs love it, but it's hard to make the treasure on them always make sense (at least in battle your collecting spoils of war, even if there is no reason why the fighter took a regen scroll with him instead of leaving safely at home behind a ward.)
 

jpariury

Duke
Dave said:
We should not allow PCs to make 'change' during logistics. By all means if they want to trade in 10 coppers for a silver, logistics would be stupid not to accept it - but the reverse costs logistics about $1.50. If PCs know there is no change, they can IG make sure they have a few coppers and silvers.
If I'm never going to get my 5 coppers in change from the silver I spent making a single CLD elixir, why would I ever want to hand in something other than the required amount of coin? i.e. this idea encourages hoarding on the part of the people most likely to spend coin in the first place.
 

Libras

Scholar
Magic Item tax/maintenance is also a bad idea. Keeps the have-nots as have-nots. Unless there wasn't a tax until you had a certain number of rituals or it was an exponential scale. But then we would also have to "lock" the magic item to that person for a logistics period.
 

Gilwing

Baron
Alliance Logistics
jpariury said:
Dave said:
We should not allow PCs to make 'change' during logistics. By all means if they want to trade in 10 coppers for a silver, logistics would be stupid not to accept it - but the reverse costs logistics about $1.50. If PCs know there is no change, they can IG make sure they have a few coppers and silvers.
If I'm never going to get my 5 coppers in change from the silver I spent making a single CLD elixir, why would I ever want to hand in something other than the required amount of coin? i.e. this idea encourages hoarding on the part of the people most likely to spend coin in the first place.
I have to agree with ya here buddy. Why would I want to ever give logistics change if I can never get change from them? Makes my coppers a commodity and worth more now. In order for people to want to let them go, you have to devalue them or make it worth there wild.

Dave said:
I'm not a fan of paying for max outs. I rather have an IG way to bring the coin back. I like the idea that a person who roleplays all weekend in the tavern gets the same build as someone who is on the front lines of every battle. In NJ I mainly put out 'puzzle plot'. PCs love it, but it's hard to make the treasure on them always make sense (at least in battle your collecting spoils of war, even if there is no reason why the fighter took a regen scroll with him instead of leaving safely at home behind a ward.)
Plot just has to find ways of putting the coin in those players hands. There is almost never a reason to have an npc who is sent to fight have some type of high end spoil. Again plot just can't be lazy and needs to find ways to make it reasonable. I am not saying that you should hand it to them though. It has to come form work. I can't stay in the tavern all day then complain that I am not getting any mods. You get what you put in.
 

Dave

Artisan
jpariury said:
If I'm never going to get my 5 coppers in change from the silver I spent making a single CLD elixir, why would I ever want to hand in something other than the required amount of coin? i.e. this idea encourages hoarding on the part of the people most likely to spend coin in the first place.
At least in NJ we rarely have coppers. When people buy things for 5 copper and hand us a silver logistics looses OOG money because the cost of 5 copper is more than the 1 silver gained. We rarely get the copper back. There are other ways of getting the lower denominations of coin back (offer gobbies for trade in, give a better exchange rate IG - such as dwarves need the metal and are exchanging 9 copper for a silver, or do something like the gumball machine that catskills set up).

Plot wise I would love not to have that much gold in the treasure so I can send out multiple silvers on monsters instead and they can hand out 3 per life - but OOG cost is way too expensive, and PCs generally rather keep the silver instead of cash in what they can at the end of logistics.

In Ashbury once, a PC asked in logistics to turn in a gold for 100 copper. It was for collections of the most coppers for the tornament, so we got it back in the end, but what if he didn't? is plot expected to fork over 13$ every time I PC makes that request? What if I start doing it specifically in one chapter because I'm getting a benefit either IG or OOG in another chapter? Now I'm just transferring the cost from one chapter to another.
 

Wraith

Newbie
Dave said:
In Ashbury once, a PC asked in logistics to turn in a gold for 100 copper. It was for collections of the most coppers for the tornament, so we got it back in the end, but what if he didn't? is plot expected to fork over 13$ every time I PC makes that request? What if I start doing it specifically in one chapter because I'm getting a benefit either IG or OOG in another chapter? Now I'm just transferring the cost from one chapter to another.
Actually, I've already seen that happen, as a chapter nearby to me has an NPC that is (I assume) designed to get coin back to them that will sell things like magic items for 'handfuls' of coppers. That leads to some of the traveling players in my home chapter being very keen to get their hands on every copper possible, to take to the other chapter.
 

SkollWolfrun

Squire
Oregon Staff
Dave said:
In Ashbury once, a PC asked in logistics to turn in a gold for 100 copper. It was for collections of the most coppers for the tornament, so we got it back in the end, but what if he didn't? is plot expected to fork over 13$ every time I PC makes that request? What if I start doing it specifically in one chapter because I'm getting a benefit either IG or OOG in another chapter? Now I'm just transferring the cost from one chapter to another.
I'd start recommending using regular pennies.
 

jpariury

Duke
Dave said:
In Ashbury once, a PC asked in logistics to turn in a gold for 100 copper.
Personally, that's the sort of thing I probably would disallow much sooner than ganking players for their coins at logistics. Logistics is not intended, imo, to be a bank.
 
Instead of changing how magic items work, why don't you add a new type of magic item to your game? (Could be LCO and implemented immediately) Instead of having a short time expiration, it lasts at least 2 years and the magic item only becomes charged for the market day ONLY when you spend money on it at logistics. And if you really think you need a second charge, maybe you could spend triple to get a second charge...
 

Ondreij

Scout
SkollWolfrun said:
Dave said:
In Ashbury once, a PC asked in logistics to turn in a gold for 100 copper. It was for collections of the most coppers for the tornament, so we got it back in the end, but what if he didn't? is plot expected to fork over 13$ every time I PC makes that request? What if I start doing it specifically in one chapter because I'm getting a benefit either IG or OOG in another chapter? Now I'm just transferring the cost from one chapter to another.
I'd start recommending using regular pennies.
Nu unh -- against the rules -- no religion in game, and pennies clearly have the word GOD appearing on the top of the obverse side.
 

SkollWolfrun

Squire
Oregon Staff
Ondreij said:
SkollWolfrun said:
Dave said:
In Ashbury once, a PC asked in logistics to turn in a gold for 100 copper. It was for collections of the most coppers for the tornament, so we got it back in the end, but what if he didn't? is plot expected to fork over 13$ every time I PC makes that request? What if I start doing it specifically in one chapter because I'm getting a benefit either IG or OOG in another chapter? Now I'm just transferring the cost from one chapter to another.
I'd start recommending using regular pennies.
Nu unh -- against the rules -- no religion in game, and pennies clearly have the word GOD appearing on the top of the obverse side.
Can rail-stamp them 1st. Turns them into blanks for the most part.
 

Shandar

Artisan
Ondreij said:
Nu unh -- against the rules -- no religion in game, and pennies clearly have the word GOD appearing on the top of the obverse side.
The rules state that there is no religion in the game, *not* that there can be no items with potential religious significance present in the game.

That said, it is a terrible idea to use any item that can be easily and inexpensively forged/reproduced as IG tender.
 
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