Mike Ventrella
Duke
Talen said:Wasn't the town-wipe at HQ the low-level event?
No, it was a normal event. http://alliancelarp.com/news/ig/911.htm
No perms from what I remember....
Talen said:Wasn't the town-wipe at HQ the low-level event?
Fearless Leader said:Talen said:Wasn't the town-wipe at HQ the low-level event?
No, it was a normal event. http://alliancelarp.com/news/ig/911.htm
No perms from what I remember....
RuneBrighteyes said:Is powergaming bad? I guess that depends who you are. I believe my version of powergaming is the worse as I attempt to get one plot to destroy another at every turn which is a real pain for a plot team to deal with.
Is our system "bad" is the more important question. It is certainly better than others I have played. I myself believe it is "bad" at running a game with such a HUGE power disparity.
Lets get back to "Does it run as it is intended?" And when I go there I wonder if there is even a clear "vision" of what the game is/should be/is intended to be anymore? Which then begs the question with an organization of this size and complexity can we get a coherent "vision" back?
I like to think so. But it will ruffle some feathers.
obcidian_bandit said:Dan Nickname Beshers said:Really?
500 gobbies spent in NH, 500 in CT: one item which gets used only NH, one item which gets used only in CT. That is the same as 500 gobbies spent in chapter A that is used in chapters A, B, and C?
It's exactly the same. You're intentionally not including the fact that your CT or NH item is usable in chapters A, B, and C, too.
A small subset of chapters deciding not to allow in LCO items doesn't actually help the global situation of reducing the power level of the game, it makes LCO items from those chapters more powerful in the global scheme of things. Independently, it puts a throttle on what that specific chapter has to deal with, but it doesn't address the overall issue at all, it makes it worse.
I don't need gobbies for what I donate, but they're nice to have...
Avaran said:I don't need gobbies for what I donate, but they're nice to have...
A sentiment I've seen and heard quite a bit.
If this is actually true, get rid of gobbies and the gobby system, and send people a thank-you e-mail form letter.
Dear <Enter Player Name Here>,
We here at Alliance <Name of Chapter Here> are grateful for your recent donation of <Enter Donation Here>. We really needed it! Thanks!
Kind regards,
Your friendly Alliance <name of chapter> staff!
Dan Nickname Beshers said:I'm getting off point.
I never heard a single complaint about LCO item compensation for staff members and NPCs until chapters started allowing them in. I'm not even close to convinced that the solution is to do away with them when reversing the recent change allowing them to transfer is far less sweeping and could easily resolve the issue.
I complained about the EC "item swapping" workaround back in 2001 or so, when we were still on the Yahoo boards. Chapters have been allowing in LCO items for a decade or so on a case by case basis, and it's been more than five years since LCO items were allowed to pretty much travel freely between chapters, so it's hardly a 'recent' change. It still doesn't address the issue of staffers being able to use their gobbies if it's 'changed back.'Dan Nickname Beshers said:I never heard a single complaint about LCO item compensation for staff members and NPCs until chapters started allowing them in. I'm not even close to convinced that the solution is to do away with them when reversing the recent change allowing them to transfer is far less sweeping and could easily resolve the issue.
evi1r0n said:Dan Nickname Beshers said:I'm getting off point.
I never heard a single complaint about LCO item compensation for staff members and NPCs until chapters started allowing them in. I'm not even close to convinced that the solution is to do away with them when reversing the recent change allowing them to transfer is far less sweeping and could easily resolve the issue.
Beyond blankets, what would you recommend dedicated staff members use their gobbies for? I cannot play my chapter, I play OR. We allow LCO transfers since our dedicated staff plays their chapter and vice versa. It wouldn't be fair if only staff could do that so we allow everyone to transfer LCO items that are built within the current rules system (no wonky, made up LCO effects).
Gilwing said:I sent in a proposal (and never heard anything back except for that it was received), leave LCO items as LCO and make staff/npc items called NPC. Allow them to transfer (if you accept NPC items). That way you are showing your appreciation to the NPC's that you have as well as staff members for there dedication.
You know people did actually do some leg work to use items in other chapters. I know that Scott K. would trade his LCO Hq items for other chapter LCO items. He didn't complain that he couldn't use his HQ items in a chapter that he would write for full time. He would take the extra step and find some one that is interested in the item (or a pick) and trade. You said that you play OR. Any member of OR staff that plays your chapter? Find out what they want and come to some type of agreement and make the trade.
evi1r0n said:Gilwing said:I sent in a proposal (and never heard anything back except for that it was received), leave LCO items as LCO and make staff/npc items called NPC. Allow them to transfer (if you accept NPC items). That way you are showing your appreciation to the NPC's that you have as well as staff members for there dedication.
You know people did actually do some leg work to use items in other chapters. I know that Scott K. would trade his LCO Hq items for other chapter LCO items. He didn't complain that he couldn't use his HQ items in a chapter that he would write for full time. He would take the extra step and find some one that is interested in the item (or a pick) and trade. You said that you play OR. Any member of OR staff that plays your chapter? Find out what they want and come to some type of agreement and make the trade.
I could get behind something like this.
obcidian_bandit said:I complained about the EC "item swapping" workaround back in 2001 or so, when we were still on the Yahoo boards. Chapters have been allowing in LCO items for a decade or so on a case by case basis, and it's been more than five years since LCO items were allowed to pretty much travel freely between chapters, so it's hardly a 'recent' change. It still doesn't address the issue of staffers being able to use their gobbies if it's 'changed back.'Dan Nickname Beshers said:I never heard a single complaint about LCO item compensation for staff members and NPCs until chapters started allowing them in. I'm not even close to convinced that the solution is to do away with them when reversing the recent change allowing them to transfer is far less sweeping and could easily resolve the issue.
Furthermore, any one chapter changing their policies to make it so that they don't allow LCO items actually makes the problem worse, not better. So long as people can swap their LCO items, a workaround exists, and the LCO items that are native to the "'Nope' Chapter" are more valuable because they can travel to one more chapter than those items which come from anywhere else, making them a 'more travelable' LCO item. They still break treasure policy, they still travel to other chapters. It's got to be a global fix. Really, this (the post that linked back to here) is my best (newest) solution to the problem that I've been thinking about on and off for the last 6 or 7 months since I posted this (sorry to the folks playing along at home, it's on the 'secret' Staff board, but I'd copy-paste it here if there's interest; it's very much in the theme of "We are the 1%, and we have f--ked up.")
That's not really a thing, though. A small cluster already do that, and it's not spreading. Leading by example in this case doesn't work. I'm looking for solutions that might work, not ones that are already proven not to.Dan Nickname Beshers said:Lead by example? If more chapters start disallowing out of chapter LCO items, it becomes easier for still more chapters to do so.
The item swap is just a work around. It's not a real solution, you're still effectively doing the same thing, you're just calling it something else. Net, you're still inflating Treasure Policy, and that's the harm that's being done. There's no checks that ensures that those items are only being used in one chapter, because they can be used in 12 chapters. It disadvantages people like Ron, who are thousands of miles from some chapters that will disallow his items, so there's even less incentive for him to travel out there where he'll take a significant step down in power because his PC has less stuff for his level because he doesn't PC. Who's trading him for items that they may ever use once because they're not likely to travel the other direction more than once every 5-10 years.Dan Nickname Beshers said:For someone like Ron, the solution IS the item swap. (...) If each of us spends 5000 gobbies on behalf of the other for items that get used in one chapter and one chapter only, what harm is done? Who is being disadvantaged(?)
Here's your reason:Dan Nickname Beshers said:I haven't yet seen a single good reason why chapters allow in non-local LCOs; no chapter I frequent ever has.
You're respecting that the chapter that gave the reward did so for a good reason, and that the person with the LCO item deserved it. Who actually wrote the tag is irrelevant. That's the only difference. That's why LCO items get let in.Dan Nickname Beshers said:So long as both CT and NH have responsible, reasonable gobbie policies there isn't anything damaging to the game occurring, since such policies attempt to emulate or modestly exceed what a person could be expected to acquire from PCing for a like period of time. That modest excess is the benefit of writing events, modules and personal plot, marshaling encounters and rituals, attending meetings during down time, and spending so much time thinking about, working on and obsessing over our respective chapters' game that one starts having vivid dreams about checking weapons in live combat against a fisher cat (long story).
Dan Nickname Beshers said:obcidian_bandit said:I complained about the EC "item swapping" workaround back in 2001 or so, when we were still on the Yahoo boards. Chapters have been allowing in LCO items for a decade or so on a case by case basis, and it's been more than five years since LCO items were allowed to pretty much travel freely between chapters, so it's hardly a 'recent' change. It still doesn't address the issue of staffers being able to use their gobbies if it's 'changed back.'Dan Nickname Beshers said:I never heard a single complaint about LCO item compensation for staff members and NPCs until chapters started allowing them in. I'm not even close to convinced that the solution is to do away with them when reversing the recent change allowing them to transfer is far less sweeping and could easily resolve the issue.
Furthermore, any one chapter changing their policies to make it so that they don't allow LCO items actually makes the problem worse, not better. So long as people can swap their LCO items, a workaround exists, and the LCO items that are native to the "'Nope' Chapter" are more valuable because they can travel to one more chapter than those items which come from anywhere else, making them a 'more travelable' LCO item. They still break treasure policy, they still travel to other chapters. It's got to be a global fix. Really, this (the post that linked back to here) is my best (newest) solution to the problem that I've been thinking about on and off for the last 6 or 7 months since I posted this (sorry to the folks playing along at home, it's on the 'secret' Staff board, but I'd copy-paste it here if there's interest; it's very much in the theme of "We are the 1%, and we have f--ked up.")
Lead by example? If more chapters start disallowing out of chapter LCO items, it becomes easier for still more chapters to do so. I haven't yet seen a single good reason why chapters allow in non-local LCOs; no chapter I frequent ever has.
For someone like Ron, the solution IS the item swap. I am staff in NH, and PC CT. Bill is staff at CT, and PCs NH. If each of us spends 5000 gobbies on behalf of the other for items that get used in one chapter and one chapter only, what harm is done? Who is being disadvantaged that two people who would otherwise have little are getting more? So long as both CT and NH have responsible, reasonable gobbie policies there isn't anything damaging to the game occurring, since such policies attempt to emulate or modestly exceed what a person could be expected to acquire from PCing for a like period of time. That modest excess is the benefit of writing events, modules and personal plot, marshaling encounters and rituals, attending meetings during down time, and spending so much time thinking about, working on and obsessing over our respective chapters' game that one starts having vivid dreams about checking weapons in live combat against a fisher cat (long story).
There is already a system in place to go beyond LCO rewards as well: Dragon Stamps. If chapter owners are given a budget of Dragon Stamps they can assign to their staffers per event, then a limited pool of travelling items is made available to those people who otherwise likely wouldn't have them, regulated by national level oversight and without having to raze the entirety of existing policy and build an entirely new system from scratch. Whether that last bit is a benefit is personal perception, I suppose.
Avaran said:Also: What does "staff" even mean? There's no national definition of what "staff" even is. I've heard some chapters count their Marshals while others do not. Some count the GM position, others don't. What someone says "Staff Member" what do you think of?