Legerdemain

I agree, strengthening locks would make it allot more apealing to pick them. =)

I was only pointing out that Destroys are a bit more uncomon than Shatters. And the scrolls usually cost more than twice as much so people think more carefully about using them...

Speaking of which I need to get some shatter scrolls... =P
 
Ezri said:
We've been trying in HQ to make the skill more needed...

I really do not understand how you can make the skill needed. Ever since we changed the shatter rules Legerdemain is all but useless. Anything that needs to be picked can just be shattered, or at the very least destroyed if the lock is built into something door sized.

The old "shatter cascade" rule was very complicated and counter intuitive. I understand why we changed the rule, and I agree with it... but that rule, aside from traps, was the only thing that made Legerdemain "required". It used to be that if you shattered the lock you shattered the box, and if you shattered the box you shattered everything inside of it. Now I can just shatter the lock and move on. ... and it is only a third level spell, meaning that is is all but ubiquitous.

Back in the way way back time Disarm Trap and Pick locks were two different skills that could be bought independently. Again we attempted to simplify the game by combining them and increasing the build cost. Now we just shaft rouges with a skill that is only worth half the build that they paid for it.

So unless you have a Dragon Mage who is fond of Rendering locks and giving them away I am not sure that there is a viable way to make lock picking a fun part of the game. (and you better believe that if I run across a rendered lock I am going to take it as treasure)

So what was once supposed to be a game challenge which was the Rogue's forte is now a challenge which just about everyone on the mod team is better at than the Rogue.

So these days if I run into a IG lock I will patiently allow the Rogue to have their fun... but if it takes to long and getting the lock open becomes an emergency I will simply step in and open the lock in 2 seconds ... with my Fighter.

Don't get me wrong... I applaud the effort to to make the skill more needed. I just do not see how it happens without traps.

-Devon
 
The road to a useful legerdemain skill is paved with traps.

Locks are a 15 copper problem for a team with access to a scrollmaker. Period.

Plot teams interested in making Legerdemain a USEFUL skill need to look into ways of incorporating more traps into their games... be it on modules etc.

As an aside... I take my team's rogue on modules pretty consistently... If some of you rogues out there aren't getting into mods regularly maybe it isn't your class that is the issue? Yeah strait up backstabs may not be 100% optimal on modules. BUT, a valid fighting style, solid OOG fighting skill and a diverse skillset can make you MUCH more attractive... Learning alchemy or Scroll Reading makes you pretty powerful in the right situations.
 
Rogues can be hugely helpful and beneficial in combat as long as they don't care about being the one to actually beat down the monster. Even with as few as 3 or 4 backstabs, if you get in behind the monster you're fighters are fighting and hit em for a couple 10's, one of two things will happen:

1) The monster spins around and starts attacking you. At this point go completely defensive and just block everything they're swinging at you and let the fighters they were originally fighting have free reign on their backsides now.
2) The monster keeps fighting the fighters and you tool them from behind with your backstsabs. Monster dies fast this way.

Rogues that fight sword/board or dual wield can make awesome tanks against one or two monsters while the mages or fighters take them on from the sides and back. Or multiple rogues forming the "triangle of you're screwed" as we liked to call it gives the monster an option of "which backstab do you wanna take?" by surrounding them from many angles. So, in short, use rogues often people! They rock.
 
I agree, dual wielding is probably better for Rogues than any other class at this point. Especially with the insanely good fact that Backstabs are not handed...
 
Dreamingfurther said:
I agree, dual wielding is probably better for Rogues than any other class at this point. Especially with the insanely good fact that Backstabs are not handed...

Incorrect.

At least on the EAST Coast some of our most prolific rogues (Air Raksa, Muggins, and Yu'der (may he rest in peace wherever he is with that weapon I loaned him) for example) fight sword and shield.

The Unhanded-ness of Backstabs is almost COMPLETELY shot to hell by the fact that you can't deliver valid weapon blows any faster than you can say the verbal for your damage.

Furthermore, having a shield on your arm prevents you from being totally owned in the face if they turn around on you if you are anything close to an ok fighter. I know that My teams rogue rights sword and shield and I never think twice about bringing him anywhere. I even throw him up on the front lines in certain fights where rogue-ish behavior is restricted to only the retardedly fast.

Stephen
 
I wouldn't say that he's incorrect. I go Two-Weapon with my rogue, and dish out damage faster with two weapons then with one. Having two weapons allows me to Octopus someone in the back since they have more places open. It's also really really nice for the chain Waylay. My record is 7 people in a group before anyone realized what was going on, and I couldn't have done it with one weapon as fast, which would have meant not doing as many people.

I agree that a shield generally makes a person a 'better fighter' because it's easier to fight with a shield with less effort/skill. If someone is actually a better fighter, they'll do just fine with two weapons, so long as it's a style they practice.
 
Sword/board rogues can be very effective, and yes the unhandedness of backstabs really doesn't come into play unless you're using weapon coatings on each blade, then it's nice when you can vorpal 10 two swords and get off two quick attacks and get big damage or do a Vorp 10 and a Paralasis, to blow through armor with the big damage then get the penetration with the poison kinda thing. The big difference between sword and board and two weapon fighting style is what you're used to/good with. I've been fighting two weapon style for most of my larping career and just enjoy/feel more comfortable than with a shield in grand melee/one on one scenarios. I do strap one on for line battles or vs archer storms, but otherwise personal preference over rules the sword and board tendency. I'm very curious to see how I do in a more intensive sword and board environment that exists on the EC vs the WC tendency to get two weapon combatants (not saying one is better or worse overall, but I've played both and seen it discussed and for whatever reason there are way more S+B fighters on EC than WC and WC tends to have a lot more two stick jockeys).
 
Shatter scrolls cost 15 copper to produce.
 
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