Life Vs Death - Earth caster opinions
- Thread starter Draven
- Start date
For me it comes down to which build I run, My earth adept build has little to no healing on it (maybe one life for rebirth), while my earth scholar build is Life x 6, COP, Death x3 until I start to see how many people are dying around me, then I will adjust. I also don't expect to be the sole healer on my team, so that probably factors into the decision as well.
Do you think you would get less subjective answers if you split it into multiple questions to see if there is a difference across different build types?
I.E. What balance would you take with 4 Ninth level spells, how about 8?
-Tony
Do you think you would get less subjective answers if you split it into multiple questions to see if there is a difference across different build types?
I.E. What balance would you take with 4 Ninth level spells, how about 8?
-Tony
These were level 30 builds made for a playtest session (again its currently the only info we have to go off of)
Draven
Count
I considered allowing more responses, but at a certain point it makes the poll meaningless, and I figured folks could extrapolate in a post.
Edit: I did add one more option, "Change Over Time," for players who might start off focusing on one, and adding the other as they gained more slots. I expect that would be for players who wanted one Life spell, but maybe wanted more Deaths as they gained 9ths.
I also expect things will remain immune to Death, despite the intentions of owners and ARC.
Durnic
Knight
On the Earth Templar build I have swinging around, it would be one Life exclusively for Rebirth.
This makes me sad.
mikestrauss
Squire
I don't. I think Corrupt is taking that position of "drops you in one shot, but high chance of immunity." I also think that owners and HoRs will enforce the concept that Death is supposed to affect the vast majority of enemies. That said, there is a reason that I am a proponent of changing the name to Doom, basically to make the transition easier and to prevent legacy concepts (like undead should be immune to Death) from creeping back into the game.
Honestly, I know it would enrage some specific characters, but I strongly feel that the KISS solution is to rename Corrupt to Death and call the new curse spell Doom. Over half the arguments I have seen against the current arrangement are basically arguments tied into "how things used to work." I know it is simply players projecting expectations based on years of tradition, but the arguments end up feeling like a refusal to accept change.
This won't be the first great magic change to happen in NERO/Alliance. I remember casting Magic Missile spells, casting celestial Endow spells, creating a NPC as an earth caster specifically so he could cast Light spells, memorizing Magic Key, losing a Ward key, and casting Detect Magic every hour in the Mage's Guild. Heck, Silence used to a command spell back in the day (there is still a monster in the database that can use Magic Silence as an ability because it was originally designed to use have one or two uses, I forget, of each command spell).
It may take a bit of time (all changes do), but I expect Death (dare I hope for Doom) will fall comfortably into the 9th level spell version of Eviscerate. That is to say, it is a fill affect that succeeds against almost every target it hits, unless that target has an appropriate one-shot defense.
-MS
mikestrauss
Squire
As I understand it, anytime Plot introduces custom rules, the HoR is supposed to sign off (and, yes, adding immunities to a creature is a custom rule). That said, I can see an HoR not being willing to put their foot down on this issue. However, at the very least, the HoR should forcefully remind the HoP that world consistency is a goal of Alliance and creating a chapter where all Elementals and Undead are immune to Death (when they aren't universally immune in every other chapter) is inconsistent, and at the very least, should be accompanied by a specific plot reason.
Similarly, I would hope that the HoP would carefully consider how such a rule change is unfairly decreasing the power of a PC ability without any compensating factor.
-MS
Edit: I noticed that you are a Head of Rules. I find it confusing and concerning that you don't believe you have the authority to prevent LCO rules from being implemented.
I think that is something deeper than an LCO rules issue. Immunities are part of a monsters stat card, those cards are nearly universally adjusted by plot teams to fit their local campaigns. There will always likely be some standard monsters though that act according to universal information.
This means that the impetus is on the owner or GM when hiring new plot members to help to enforce what they have voted in. If the owners/their representatives don't take the time to educate the plot teams on the why of the rules they have voted for then you run into the situation described above where a ninth level spell becomes a burden except in clutch situations (where generally speaking a lesser spell, or combination of lesser spells could do the trick).
So while a HoR might not have any authority, an owner can generally make mandates for the health of the game (most people whom have been on plot have seen this in one form or another). The statement that you end up hearing most frequently in regards to these kind of changes is "Trust you plot team". I think in regards to the potential utility of Death, trust your plot team is what we just have to accept until it rolls out.
Honestly every time I have used Corrupt in a mod it has changed the tide of the encounter, this emergency utility probably adds greatly to the power of memorizing life spells as well, but if the intention is to make things balance against our current system, I believe we will see all of those immune to Gifts become immune to Life/Corrupt.
If it helps I like to think of the curse version of death as a magical unmaking of the essence that is animating a thing. This separates it from Biological function, maybe that helps.
-Tony
This means that the impetus is on the owner or GM when hiring new plot members to help to enforce what they have voted in. If the owners/their representatives don't take the time to educate the plot teams on the why of the rules they have voted for then you run into the situation described above where a ninth level spell becomes a burden except in clutch situations (where generally speaking a lesser spell, or combination of lesser spells could do the trick).
So while a HoR might not have any authority, an owner can generally make mandates for the health of the game (most people whom have been on plot have seen this in one form or another). The statement that you end up hearing most frequently in regards to these kind of changes is "Trust you plot team". I think in regards to the potential utility of Death, trust your plot team is what we just have to accept until it rolls out.
Honestly every time I have used Corrupt in a mod it has changed the tide of the encounter, this emergency utility probably adds greatly to the power of memorizing life spells as well, but if the intention is to make things balance against our current system, I believe we will see all of those immune to Gifts become immune to Life/Corrupt.
If it helps I like to think of the curse version of death as a magical unmaking of the essence that is animating a thing. This separates it from Biological function, maybe that helps.
-Tony
Draven
Count
Because I don't. In matters regarding LCO rules, I exist in an advisory capacity.
Edit: It's possible that a HoR's authority differs from chapter to chapter, at the discretion of their owner, much like Marshals differ from chapter to chapter.
A chapter's staff and culture determines who holds the reigns on LCO effects. NH runs all of our LCO effects through our HoR, and Sean has vetoed several ideas over the years, although more often he would work with me and others to balance the needs of the story with the needs of the game mechanics.
I would almost certainly memorize Purifies in 9th level slots at least some of the time.
I would almost certainly memorize Purifies in 9th level slots at least some of the time.
Draven
Count
The intent of the poll is for slots you'd use on either Life or Death. I mean, I'm always going to have a Circle of Power and an Earth Storm (if I stay Earth, anyways).
In general, our expectation is that Death should land approximately as much (offensively) as a Prison. While a Plot team could certainly make a huge number of creatures immune to Prison, it would generally be considered 'out of the norm' and (as Mike S noted) should have a good Plot reason. We'd expect the same for Death.
Sometimes I might not memorize either.
Otherwise, I would adjust based on expected need. I don't anticipate having a go-to load out.
Draven
Count
Well, gosh darnit, Dan, I've already adjusted for Crazy Mungo.
Sorry. Friendz?
Draven
Count
Maybe. We'll see. But I added another choice just for you. But I guess possibly for other people, too.