Life Vs Death - Earth caster opinions

[Deadlands of Old]

We could also arm them with fluffy pillows, in order to devalue healing spells, but at some point, why are we doing that?

That seems like a bit of a leap.

I apologise if I sounded at all flip. My question stems from a common, long standing practice at the chapters at which I've played where the number of deaths going out for any given encounter was typically watched carefully and limited depending on the number of life spells we thought the PCs had, somewhat apart from scaling for the APL.

This was more of a concern when sending out a death spell was akin to sending out a shatter spirit, but it was relatively easy to adjust.

Since there are always other spells at every level, I see no reason why wouldn't or couldn't adjust accordingly.

 

[Draven]

That seems like a bit of a leap.

I apologise if I sounded at all flip. My question stems from a common, long standing practice at the chapters at which I've played where the number of deaths going out for any given encounter was typically watched carefully and limited depending on the number of life spells we thought the PCs had, somewhat apart from scaling for the APL.

This was more of a concern when sending out a death spell was akin to sending out a shatter spirit, but it was relatively easy to adjust.

Since there are always other spells at every level, I see no reason why wouldn't or couldn't adjust accordingly.

Further evidence that Life is too important a spell.

 

[Polare]

...I still want my Necromancer, and I will give him some Withers, some cause mortgage, etc

That's a hell of a lot scarier than Cause Mortal Wounds. Best autocorrect in the thread.

-Bryan

 

[MaxIrons]

I still want my Necromancer, and I will give him some Withers, some cause mortgage...

The most terrifying Necromancer of ALL TIME!

Silliness aside, changing Death to Doom, and having Corrupt be the big bad mess you up spell for Necromancers would lower the necessity for Life spells. It means that Life spells are powerful, yes, but not as necessary unless you're going up against big bads that throw Corrupt.

 

[mikestrauss]

That seems like a bit of a leap.

I apologise if I sounded at all flip. My question stems from a common, long standing practice at the chapters at which I've played where the number of deaths going out for any given encounter was typically watched carefully and limited depending on the number of life spells we thought the PCs had, somewhat apart from scaling for the APL.

I agree that was a bit of a leap, but I think part of the point remains. If I believe that the appropriate challenge for a particular encounter involves an X level caster, then spell selection shouldn't change that. However, if you feel the need to limit the number of Death spells a NPC can memorize, because it is overpowered in excess, then that particular spell has a problem. And, in the case where Death is lower level than Life, the problem is that it is too low level a spell.

I'll admit, even I put limits on memorizing death spells when sending out NPCs in some cases, but those instances mostly revolve around the 2.5 level gap where a caster goes from 1 Death spell to 4 in practically an instant (every later one death spell costs 2.5 levels).

In short, with some slight exceptions, you shouldn't have to throttle casters for a specific spell and if you do, that points to a spell that isn't properly balanced.

-MS

 

[Muir]

That's the nature of scaling, though.

You have to either throttle the number of one-shot takeouts to prevent draining all of the PCs' resources to counter them, or accept that you're going to cause a lot of resurrections.

 

[Draven]

That's the nature of scaling, though.

You have to either throttle the number of one-shot takeouts to prevent draining all of the PCs' resources to counter them, or accept that you're going to cause a lot of resurrections.

Ironically, the most prevalent resource we have currently in the Pac NW is Life spells.

 

[Durnic]

Ironically, the most prevalent resource we have currently in the Pac NW is Life spells.

So many.

 

[mikestrauss]

That's the nature of scaling, though.

You have to either throttle the number of one-shot takeouts to prevent draining all of the PCs' resources to counter them, or accept that you're going to cause a lot of resurrections.

I've done lots of scaling in my life. I am familiar with the process. The point I am trying to make is that if I believe a 15th level Earth caster (for example) is an appropriately scaled challenge for a specific encounter, I shouldn't have to add the caveat, as long as that caster memorizes no more than X Death spells. And, in the current rules, more often than not, I don't.

However, should the spell be reduced to 8th level, or heaven forbid, 7th or lower, then I would most definitely feel the need to throttle, because a spell that is balanced properly as a 9th level spell was made unbalanced by reducing the level.

I'm honestly mystified that anyone thinks reducing the spell level is a mechanically good idea.

-MS

 

[Durnic]

I'm honestly mystified that anyone thinks reducing the spell level is a mechanically good idea.
-MS

I believe it was just an example of a way to change it, not a concrete idea.

 

[A.mungo]

I think also the discussion turned to changing the level and effect.

For example, if lowered to 7/8 changing the effect to reduce target to -1 body (or 0 body where appropriate)

I think this helps to update the idea that Corrupt is the new signature reverse instant kill spell, while death becomes extremely usefully against monster races, but easily fixable against PC's.

Leaving it as an instant kill only healable by life while lowering the memorization level would mystify me as well, though it might give all those bloodthirsty casters that keep requesting earth gets more teeth some solace.