Loot sack!

Parzivel

Parzivel

Artisan
OOG*: Ok, seriously, though, someone (Locke?) pointed out to me today an issue with loot sack and loot-split in general that I'd love to see fixed. Saturday night's fight was AWEsome with a capital AWE, and it seems brutally unfair that the PCs that helped out as orcs and undead did so not only by sacrificing their character-time, but loot as well. I would love to see loot sack include any PCs who are on NPC duty at the time of the big fights. I'm not sure how to address this in-game (they were guarding the town?), but it just seems fair and right.

*sorry. I know this is an in-game forum, but I have no idea how to address this in-game since it is an OOG issue.
 
PCs dont get to "proxy into existance" just because the players were doing somthing else at the time. You know who was back at town guarding during that fight? MY character and seemingly ONLY my character... so yeah, no. They were running as NPCs. They put in no work into that fight or in any other way as their characters at that time. Just like they wouldnt if they didnt even attend that weekend- they wouldnt be at that fight and they wouldnt be entitled to a thing from it. They werent there.

NPC players get rewarded in other OOC ways- (Gobbies and sometimes magic item picks) and are appreciated in other ways for their time and effort. Its called roleplay, you have to do it IC to get stuff IC. They were friggin sleeping or away just like anyone doing an NPC- you dont get both. Loot is an IN CHARACTER ISSUE, not an out of game one to be chased after for ooc reasons. Its completely fair to only earn what your character, and you , were actually there for. Its double-dipping to skip risking the death of your character, or expending IG resources, and still get rewarded for it in-game as though they were there or doing anything.
 
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(OOG posts split into their own thread on the OOG forums, IG beginning of the thread is on the IG forums)
 
I appreciate what they do and the service that they give, and it seems a shame to penalize them for doing it. I think you have a good argument though, in that they are not expending resources (or risking death) during those fights, and maybe that takes care of it. I think it's still a net loss, but not so bad as I'd originally thought. I don't really care much about the OOC issue, since I'm sure every PC volunteer has to come up with ridiculous reasons why they are unavailable to help out their town for 2 hours: the wall is already pretty broken, let alone having to IC explain dragon stamps and other mechanical issues.

meirya: thanks for the break-and-move!
 
They arent being penalized, they just arent being rewarded twice.

They are getting goblin stamps and then sometimes magic items that their characters can then use later. There is -0- net loss as those goblin can be spent on exactly what they need in production for their character, and those magic items are guaranteed after a certain point, for IG free, without an expense to their character.

Theres nothing penal about this. Loot is IC and is gained through IC means, NPCing is an OOC service to the game and is rewarded accordingly. It is not fair to allow double-dipping. If some one wants lie about it and be all "Yo, totes, gimme stuff cause I deserve stuff for not being there because... naptime or whatever" then... yyyyeah sure go for it, thats their ball to play with.... but I hope other characters look at that as trashy. But this is a non-issue on the ooc front for sure and not really even on the IC front. How they got those items from teh goblin and the item bag are up to them to make up how they got them and its usually easy to make up whatever story that is not big deal. Most of the time it dosnt even come up. And even ooc excuses for non-presence really are not a big deal because its just one of those things of suspension of disbeleif so the game can run- everyone gets it, this culture inherently understands it and for the most part everyone knows to not bother the people who need to employ that.
 
I think I agree with your conclusions, if not all your points. Thanks!
 
So I saw this same issue (people jumping ship and not getting loot). One suggestion is to tip those people that go and do "guard duty". I know that gold was tipped out to some characters doing guard duty this last gather.

If it bothers your guilt (it does to me personally), I think there are ways to make it less painful. It's a bit of positive steering. We might not be able to catch them all, but we can come up with an IG justification of rewarding them. That's one way of rewarding those that jump ship.
 
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-They're already getting rewarded.-

Like seriously, very sincerely, whoever is doing NPC duty and then thinking they are owed IC money, you're being hugely greedy on an ooc level that is not cool.
 
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Great idea, Mike. Individual tipping means that I can help reward something I think deserves additional reward, without taking from anyone else AND without worrying about benefiting from the policy myself. Now I just have to make more money...
 
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Hm. I get an error whenever I try to look at it. "Requested Attachment could not be found".
 
Prolly need to hit refresh. Beyond that, just my honest dismay. I think there is a severe language or culture barrier going on here or otherwise there are some greedy-*** players (yes players, greedy characters are fine.) in this game (not you, you're trying to give- and I get it, but the concern is misplaced for this kind of game). The loot bag thing came from SF, noone there, not one, ever, expects IC loot, for OOC NPCing. Nor is that a thing anywhere else.
 
Btw, just to clarify my post, no one expected/asked/mentioned/thought about being rewarded for NPCing with IG loot. It is a bleed with me personally because I value the service of NPCing so highly. For that reason, I don't mind "rewarding for guard duty" while the adventurers go off and have a ton of fun and are able to loot the dragon horde. Yes, it's steering, but for me, I can justify it. They were guarding the ducal estates while we fought pike. It's a personal thing. I also have bleed in some areas of my LARPing that many others don't have.
 
Even though they are already being rewarded? This cannot be a bleed thing man, you found this idea in another chapter, you launched it, and now you need to carry it right. And probably talk to them about why and how they handle things the way they do as the loot bag is part of that cultural context.

It just cant be a thing of bleed. They are doing for the game and getting rewarded that way, by the game, what you are doing is willingly offering a double dip- and if you wanna, outof your own pocket, I aint got a problem with that (Though I dont think its in the spirit of NPCing, or playing), but the idea of them being automatically considered for IC loot from a combat they didnt fight in as their character and for wich they are already getting goodies from in doing service as NPCs- and probably better goodies, and more of it (And can even get the same things if they do a stint without missing an IC combat as their PC- just by virtue of timeing), strikes me as nothing near fair.
 
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For me..I see these as two VERY different things. Loot sack is from SF and all in all, worked fairly well. I appreciate your IG post and I'll post more about it probably this week (as well as ask for feedback). I personally don't want to reward players out of loot sack for fights they aren't in. If they aren't there, they don't get a cut of it.

I should have been clear about that when I first posted. My suggestion about was totally separate of loot sack.
 
Oh totes agree with that ^
 
Personal, and somewhat facetious, view: If it becomes standard practice to "deal in" players who take a shift as portrayers, I want a cut as well. Following the logic, I give up an entire weekend and all hope of components, coins, or formal scrolls and only a very limited pick of magic items that a standard portrayer weekend doesn't even begin to cover in terms of required GS. I can easily narrate that my character is, in IBGA-land, wandering around valiantly doing their duty protecting New Acarthia as part of the Ducal Army or somesuch. So can I get dealt in?

What about actual members of the town guard who are not adventurers? Can they get a cut since they were protecting the town—and risking their lives (to great peril, based on the periodic death count of towns guard members)—even though they aren't out in the field helping Her Grace gain the power of the landbond directly? Or for protecting the town while you were in Death's Islands?

Now, I don't actually want that cut, because really: Treasure found on these encounters is an IG construct, not an OOG one. Portrayers don't get a cut for the encounters they aren't in, because their characters are not in those encounters.

I also admittedly find paying people who go on "guard duty" strange as an idea, unless you are already paying people for doing so with their actual physical selves (or in their IBGAs, for that matter). A while ago we had a few people spend their IBGAs trying to find ways to kill necromantic cats that were causing problems for the livestock, yet I don't think any of them were actually paid by any adventurers for their efforts. In my mind it just creates a weird situation.
 
Request for clarification: I thought the GS magic item pick was only for those that NPCed the entire event?

Other thought re reward: As the game scales up, the rewards will become more disproportionate in favor of PCing field battles in a purely numbers sense.

As one who turned cloak Saturday night, I've been through these mental gymnastics already and believe no loot should be awarded to the turncloaks. The reasons are many, but I feel the main one is the strain it puts on the divide between IG and OOG in a game with enough of that happening by necessity.

If you are concerned about a perceived fairness, or assuaging guilt, look the opposite direction: convince everyone else you know to work a shift at some point. Even if it's not a town battle (of which there are usually ~5?) there are plenty of other potential opportunities (plot, mods, crunchies, etc) they're missing out on as well. Town battles are simply the easiest the quantify and plan for.
 
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