[.11] Magic Strike needs to be General

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
So, the reality is that carriers will continue to have moments of importance in our game. Those moments are, naturally, at the hands of Plot to determine how often they occur. But they'll happen.

We have two races that will be prohibited from using Celestial. No race is excluded from using Earth. As a result, err'body has access to the Healing carrier. But the Magic carrier is now exclusively C's domain. That can potentially be an issue, because either

1) Monsters are statted so that C's carriers are pretty much irrelevant

2) Monsters are statted so that C's carriers are important, and exclude O/B.

There's not really a good in-between, because Immunities are Pass/Fail, not spectrum.

Re-formatting "X to hit" to "XYZ doesn't hit" doesn't change that Solution carriers are limited. But O/B only have a small amount of available carriers (can't use SLIF or M in the current system, and can't use Body from Monster Slayer).

So, my solution is to propose that Magic Strike is made general like Damage Aura was. While I understand the thematic desire to keep it analogous to Celestial Magic Blade, we have two racial imbalances that require a counter-imbalance in order to keep play fair and enjoyable.
 

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
Or, combine Monster Slay and Race Reaver into a single generic ritual?
I don't feel that bridges the gap as effectively, though. Should O/B martial/stealth characters have to farm multiple niche rituals just so they're prepared to handle whatever weirdness Plot throws out there that needs Body/Magic to solve?
 

Alavatar

Baron
Ah. You are talking about a ritual. Nevermind. For some reason I thought you were talking about a Celestial Spell, "Enhanced Blade".

I do think it will cause confusion. Every other origin for the Magic carrier in 0.11 is Celestial, so even if an Oathsworn or Biata uses a Generic Magic Strike ritual effect for 10 minutes I bet someone on the field will question the validity.
 

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
Ah. You are talking about a ritual. Nevermind. For some reason I thought you were talking about a Celestial Spell, "Enhanced Blade".

I do think it will cause confusion. Every other origin for the Magic carrier in 0.11 is Celestial, so even if an Oathsworn or Biata uses a Generic Magic Strike ritual effect for 10 minutes I bet someone on the field will question the validity.
I disagree, because it would actually be closer to the current 1.3, where the Magic carrier is only available to C Battlemagic, but there's a General ritual that provides it, too. So if there's confusion, I suspect it would come from newer players that aren't yet familiar with rituals....and this would spark some IG education, which I think is ultimately a great experience!
 
This might end up being unpopular, but I actually don't think it's that big an issue if Magic is restricted to C-only; I think it encourages teamwork both in party composition and in battlefield tactics. Even if Oathsworn and Biata can't use it, they can still distract and block/Parry/Intercept for characters who can, or if they're magically inclined can supply protectives or healing, or just be on-hand to refit armor, or maybe use disabling Gas or Trap Globes.

Having a party of nothing but Oathsworn or Biata Fighters or Rogues is certainly a choice characters can make, but I can't imagine it happening so frequently that their lack of C-magic or the Magic carrier becomes a burden.
 

Seabass

Scholar
South Michigan Staff
Nothing is X to hit anymore. Auras are made now to add advantage, not be the requirement. With temp effects from both spells and rituals having something be the requirement is too callous for monster cards.
 

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
Nothing is X to hit anymore. Auras are made now to add advantage, not be the requirement. With temp effects from both spells and rituals having something be the requirement is too callous for monster cards.
That’s not exactly true; Immunities are still a thing (and that was confirmed). What’s changed is the formatting. As a result, “to hit” is still a thing, it’s just framed differently.
 

Tantarus

Squire
Nothing is X to hit anymore. Auras are made now to add advantage, not be the requirement. With temp effects from both spells and rituals having something be the requirement is too callous for monster cards.
I feel like it has been stated there will still be magic to hit monsters repeatedly in threads. Or at least immune to normal and silver which is effectively the same thing.
 
I've noted in other threads, there are plenty of monsters present in the monster database I've looked at that can only be damaged by weapon attacks with Magic or Chaos or whatever Carriers and should be calling No Effect to anything else (besides Body).
 

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
I've noted in other threads, there are plenty of monsters present in the monster database I've looked at that can only be damaged by weapon attacks with Magic or Chaos or whatever Carriers and should be calling No Effect to anything else (besides Body).
This kinda makes my case for me.
 

Seabass

Scholar
South Michigan Staff
Looking at the playtest monster manual I see only minimized damage from normal and/or silver. While I know that is only 1 point of damage it is significantly different than "To Hit" meaning you have no hope of hurting the creature at all.

With that said it only strengthens my point. If there is a times per day and a time/duration limited effect that is required to harm a creature... that is far too limiting. If even only the possibility exists that you can nickle and dime a creature down by any means is a big difference.
 

The defenses of a creature that can only be damaged by the Chaos Carrier or the Spell Qualifier if you hit it with a weapon (plus Body, which as I noted above, no creature I've seen is immune to). Cropped to avoid spoiling the creature, but those are all its defensive abilities.
 

Tantarus

Squire
Making enhanced blade scrollable would help alot. I hate to think we are going to end up with a bunch of melee that have exhausted there ability to swing magic and just useless in a fight. I really dislike 10 min aura effects.
 

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
So, we're kinda off track here.

Back to the OP:

Assuming that functionality isn't changing, can we please make Magic Strike a General Ritual, so that two races aren't excluded from what's currently an important Solution carrier?
 

Tantarus

Squire
So, we're kinda off track here.

Back to the OP:

Assuming that functionality isn't changing, can we please make Magic Strike a General Ritual, so that two races aren't excluded from what's currently an important Solution carrier?
Honestly that is not even that great of a solution. I mean how many 10 min effects are you really going to have on a magic weapon? Most of our Big bad battles last 1-2 hours. If I go fighter I frankly refuse to burn ritual slots on a 10 minute effect. Let the casters handle it, or have enhanced blades for me.
 

Banradi

Adept
South Michigan Staff
So, we're kinda off track here.
I don't think we are off track here. I think removing 'to hit' from monster cards is an alternative solution to your concern as opposed to adjusting the ritual, and you kind of shut that down.

However, if you specifically only want to talk about making Magic Strike a General Ritual, I don't think it's a big issue if it's restricted to Celestial only (I think Celestial is underpowered as it is already). I think it fits nicely with the core principle of Alliance. Not every character/class can do everything.

Having to have multiple races/classes work together seems like a fundamental part of the game to me. Opening up Magic Strike weakens that.
 
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