Monster Slayer Ettiquette

MaxIrons

MaxIrons

Knight
Marshal
So, pretty soon I'm going to have a monster slayer weapon on hand. What's the general etiquette on using one if it's not obvious that it would effect what you're swinging at? (Well... it looks like a giant lightning spider troll.... kind of... when I squint...) How do I know if it's effected by my elemental slayer, and how do I do this with breaking the least amount of immersion possible?
 
I would just ask OOG if it is elemental. Or ask the plot marshal if your slayer will work. Also asking "what do I see" can sometimes get you enough information but not always.
 
Mechanically I agree, just looking for some tips/tricks to try and keep it as in character as possible.
 
Monster Slayers/Race Reavers are really hard. They rely completely on OOG information. As such, you have to break character to find out. It's the unfortunate side effect of having something that isn't easily identifiable (i.e. spells).
 
In my chapter, where slayers and reavers are perhaps uncommonly common, it is not unusual for a marshal to give a general call of "for the purposes of slayers, these are <Monster Type or Race>" before a battle begins. It is a bit immersion-breaking, but in my opinion, it's better to have it happen one time early on than constantly throughout a scene.
 
My recommendation is this:

Unless you are 100% certain that it will work, don't call the extra damage.
Don't break immersion by asking out of game while you are fighting and definitely don't call a hold just to ask.

Instead, if you see a marshal, discretely ask.
If that doesn't work or isn't an option, feel free to ask during a hold called for another reason.
Finally, if you are searching a corpse for treasure, that is also a good time to ask discretely (the player of the corpse is effectively OOG).

-MS
 
My advice always leans towards contacting your local staff and getting a read for how they would like to handle things.

Asking an npc/marshal for a physical description as the combat is starting/as they approach never hurts immersion.

The one pleasant thing about elemental slayers it that the monsters in question tend to be "color coordinated for your convenience"

-Mike D.
 
From the ritual text: "The wielder of the Monster Slayer weapon must be sure that the target monster is truly of the race the weapon is targeted against in order to invoke the extra damage."

Historically, I've seen this played as "The character has to know for sure". The intention of Monster Slayer has never been read as intended to be a "Monster-type Detector"; making use of it was an act of will. As for "Well, how do I know for sure?", there's a number of effects that can lead you to know, or you can rely on your plot team putting out good information in some form for you to find.

That said, there's sufficient vaguery that asking your local staff, as Mike D suggests, might be the better way to approach it.
 
On a side note, this is why I firmly believe that all Slayers should change the carrier to the slayer type (Ex: 5 Humanoid) and if you are of that type, the weapon ignores all weapon type immunities (eg. need Magic to damage) and deals double damage.

It puts the onus of knowledge on the NPC (who has that knowledge on a printed card in their possession) and simplifies damage calls (switching mid-battle is confusing and often creates unintentional screw ups).

The big flaw (as has been noted before) is that some slayers are "better" than others due to length of monster name (6 Trolloid vs. 6 Magical Creature), but that flaw already exists in elemental calls (lightning vs. ice) and doesn't horribly imbalance the game. The lesser flaw is that "Goblinoid" sounds like a vaguely ridiculous carrier, but if we want to argue aesthetics, lots of carriers sound a little ridiculous.

-MS
 
Can I say "meewee" rather than "Mystic Wood Elf"?

Asking for a friend... :p
 
I would rule that it would have to be the entire name just like it couldn't be "kin" but "wylderkin". That would put it in line with "magical creature" instead of "magcre" (which isnt a real thing but hey a man can dream right?) *Cue I've Got A Dream from Tangled*
 
I happen to like that way of doing things Mike, it's an elegant solution.... except for when you're also using another carrier. If I have an elemental slayer with an ice aura, what do I call when attacking the Flame Overlord? I can see just calling X Elemental, however some cards would require a rework/rewrite. For example if I have a Fae slayer and the Fae card says "can only be hit for Normal".... it could cause some issues the way it's currently set up.

A good bit of re-working... just not sure how it would effect the magic/elemental/earth aura spells/rituals overall due to the required re-writes.
 
Just a blurb in the rulebook under carriers to the effect of:
"weapon blows with a carrier that matches the PC race or Monster Type listed on your monster or character card will effect you for the damage called. This overrules any other carrier immunities on your card."

Example: Bob the NPC is playing a Goblinoid with "immune to normal and silver weapon attacks" on his card.

Sasha the Fighter runs up (but stops outside charging distance) and hits Bob for "5 Normal" with her sword. Bob calls "no effect"
Sasha drops the sword and pulls out a silvered axe and hits Bob for "5 silver." Bob says "No Effect" again.
Squinting in the poor light, Sasha sees that the creature she attacked appears to be some sort of green humanoid. She drops the axe and pulls out a hammer (observers begin to wonder how she manages to run) and hits Bob for "5 High Orc." Bob rolls his eyes and says "No Effect," frustrated that he is unable to land a hit on Sasha even as she seems to be doing her level best to drown him in weapon reps.
Getting frustrated, Sasha puts down the hammer and pulls out a dagger and hits Bob for "5 Goblinoid." Bob shrieks in pain.
Jimbo the rogue, amused at the goings-on, but realizing they need to finish this fight pulls his bow and hits Bob with a "50 Magic Assassinate."
BOB EXPLODES!! (did I mention he was a grenadier with funky immunities? No? Sorry.)
Sasha is blown in half by the explosion and goes to resurrect. Jimbo takes the copper from the goblin, as well as Sasha's coin pouch.
Jimbo buys Sasha a drink with her own money while spinning a yarn about the 20 other goblins he had to kill, preventing him from rendering First Aid,
Jimbo is a jerk.

Wow... that kinda got away from me.
 
My concern isn't that so much as the more subtle impacts of implementation. Earth blade/Earth Aura becomes much less useful, because the celestial ritual Undead Monster Slayer performs that task with the added bonus that you could swing 5 Undead at a Goblin and it would still damage them, whereas 5 Earth would not. I'm not against the idea, just pointing out that current linkages would have to be examined.
 
I think Mike forgot to mention the idea (though it was in Todd's lovely story) that not being the correct monster type makes you immune. ("Squinting in the poor light, Sasha sees that the creature she attacked appears to be some sort of green humanoid. She drops the axe and pulls out a hammer (observers begin to wonder how she manages to run) and hits Bob for "5 High Orc." Bob rolls his eyes and says "No Effect," frustrated that he is unable to land a hit on Sasha even as she seems to be doing her level best to drown him in weapon reps.")

Also, "5 earth" still bypasses armor, which is particularly useful against death knights and the like.
 
There would not need to be much clarification on Earth/Chaos carriers, but I agree that lumping double damage into it would make getting each elemental aura useless since I could just get elemental slayer and be good for 8 different types of elements (a bajillion different variants). That makes it stupid over powered. Elemental getting rid of the distinction between the two major types already made it very powerful. But under slayer, you can always specify to make things unable to be used vs other types if you were inclined.
 
We are so totally off-topic now (Hey Paladins, look over there, a MONKEY), but...

Elemental aura weapons are good against more than just elementals. They affect creatures that are "immune to normal" and deal double damage against other creatures depending on vulnerabilities. For example, most trolloids take double damage from fire, many lizardmen / naga take double damage from ice, and most goblinoids take double damage from stone (not that I've ever seen that vulnerability come up, but it makes a 1st level celestial scholar with a stone bolt feel good). Elemental aura weapons still maintain parity in this proposal, unless you are in a chapter that has stripped all of the vulnerabilities / resistances from the standard monster database.

I will acknowledge that undead slayer pretty much trumps earth aura (except in a few corner cases of undead with armor). My first instinct is to remove undead from the list of monsters this ritual can affect (separate the two types of magic a little more firmly). My second instinct is to not care too much, since there are ways to create earth auras that don't rely on ritual magic while that isn't possible for a slayer.

-MS

P.S. - @MaxIrons -> According to the rule book, if you have multiple carriers for some reason (for example a monster that innately swings Flame carrying a weapon with a Magic aura), you CHOOSE which one to swing. You do NOT combine them / call them both.
 
I think what he was trying to say was that if you have an ice aura and a +8 elemental slayer you could be swinging +8 ice against the flame elemental.
 
tieran said:
I think what he was trying to say was that if you have an ice aura and a +8 elemental slayer you could be swinging +8 ice against the flame elemental.
Click to expand...

Exactly, which would be much more beneficial than just doubling my 5 normal against them.
 
Ok, what if we added a layer to differentiate Race Reaver and Monster Slayer from Auras?

Idea: Slayers and Reavers add a flat +10 damage to weapon swings against their (monster or race) target when the carrier is used. You MUST use the Slayer/Reaver's carrier to get this damage bonus.

Example 1: I have an Elf Reaver, I swing +10 to my normal damage when saying "X Elf." If the target is not an Elf they take no damage as that carrier does not effect them.

Example 2: I have a weapon with an Undead Slayer and an Earth Aura. I swing at an Undead using the "Undead" carrier and add 10 to my damage call, or I can call Earth and have my regular damage doubled.

This makes Slayers and Reavers better in the hands of people who don't swing as hard normally (scholars, rogues from the front) but not as advantageous as an aura in the hands of the fighter classes. This is a buff to the base Slayer/Reaver Rituals, but prevents carrier stacking and doubling.
 
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