More War Plot?

Walgar

Newbie
Just was thinking about it some today and all of my Pcs have been in some kinda war in every chapter that i play. Many of these Ig wars have been on going for a very long time Ig. We ( the Pcs ) often find ourselfs fighting 200 or so of "x" bad guys 5 or 6 time per gather. Where most of the time the Pcs win by killing each one of them and maybe 1 or 2 Pcs rez (sometime more, most times less).

So IG there is about 1000 rez/permed Bad guys per gather/event. So I now think What kinda leader would attack goups of Pcs in force after seeing that a few times. Sending mindless undead in to keep us there so that the bad guy can do "x" bad guy thing maybe. But why send in your troops in to get killed for nothing. Noone attacks up hill into a defended place held by better troops that outnumber them in Rl because they would be killed to the man. So why does it happen so much in game?

Also I can only speak for myself but playing the part of "person in the Army" is not the same as playing a free willed person looking to be all they cant be. Maybe this is becasue i was in the Army and was in a war and thus cant get past things that "would not happen". The war plot that ive seen seems to be very set no matter what the Pcs do there is still going to be more bad guys to kill. There is even events that are planed for when "X" thing happens in the war that the pcs "could still do something about.

Myself I would love to see more Person needs help and turns to the pcs and less epic world ends plot. Epic stuff should be rare and more worked buy the Pcs imho. right now i feel like im playing a computer game that has a set event that happens in a set order not matter what.

Please dont take this for bitching about plot, thats not what im going for here. I would just like to hear what people think about this. And maybe a bit about what we can do about it and still have a fun game for everyone. Please Dont anyone that this as a attack on them or the hard work that goes into running a game.

Tim Gailey
 
I would say that it is probably quite a bit easyer to write more epic plot because it does at least get all the PC's involved in the major daytime wave battles. However this is a very valid concern, and I have witnessed such situations where even quite a few PC's who go along with the whole town don't really have any good reason why they are going along. It is cool to have the whole town mobalized but I agree it removes a good deal of an individuals free will from the equation. (OOG you have no fun and can't really go on adventures because the NPC are ocupied.) Maybe if there could be some NPC's saved from these huge wave battles for the people that would rather not fight in them? But things are also getting to the point where I feel like large forces of adventures are able to stand up to real armys, that sort of scale is quite something to behold.

It's a difficult balance between something that OOG is AWSOME and something that doesn't make so much sense IG. 60 Heroes who fight down 100 or 200 tough soldiers is really cool, and hell we can do it! But in reality the chances that 60 random adventures would come together, especially with all the degree of individuality players generally express is rather low.

Will comment more... but does this make any sense? (btw love you plot and staff people! :D )
 
Some things to consider:

Hubris-
Not other options
Strong Idealogical opposition-
To accomplish another goal-

I agree that there needs to be a reason for NPCs to get slagged event after event with little or no gains otherwise morale would draw down and internal fighting would start amonst the NPCs. If you have a responsive plot team, you may find non combative means to end the wars your fighting.

Just my 2 cents

Paul
 
I always looked at the war plots as happening on a much larger scale than wherever the PC's happen to be for that event. There are Ducal, Baronial, etc armies doing things "behind the scenes". The war is much larger than the battles the PCs fight. We take part in but a few battles.
 
I agree with this but its one of the things that we have to suspend disbelief on
another thing is why the heck would monsters have money on them? who is putting a coin or two on each of them?
yes some might have money becouse there paid and actualy could spend it but some like my last weekend Giant Rats and Fire ants wouldnt!
just have to suspend disbelief for it

One justifactaion for constant wars is the creatures and people we are at war with have totaly diffrent values and thinking
they are turly an alien mind (the monster races) and dont think like we do for the most part.

there is presidence for constant war races in earths world history Vikings, Mongolia and some middle east peoples today that despite constatn war and losses would still battle and we dont have Circles to rez in. (as far as I know)

FW
 

youthculture

Fighter
Frank Wiccan said:
I agree with this but its one of the things that we have to suspend disbelief on
another thing is why the heck would monsters have money on them? who is putting a coin or two on each of them?
yes some might have money becouse there paid and actualy could spend it but some like my last weekend Giant Rats and Fire ants wouldnt!
just have to suspend disbelief for it
No, they don't carry coin -- but it's more than possibly they ate an adventurer or two that carried coin on them. ;) When you walk up to a monster and say "I search you," think about where you might be searching. Sometimes it's not a pretty thought. :p
 
yeh the Rats at my last weekend were asking do you serch the innards im like yup
one Rat had me pull a silver out of his teeth (that was fun:) )
but other monsters sent out by a mastermind villian you would think he would remove all goodies before sending them out
and when you pull a magic item off one you ask why the heck wasnt he using it?
that is one thing I try to do when Running a D&D game the monsters are using the magic item and players haev to kill it then take it

I am by no means saying I dont want tresure (I actualy want more)
I sugested on the car ride back that perhaps it change to a monsters just drop pelts, parts and items that we get the tags for and sell to an NPC trader or turn in and PC's could barter better prices and use merchant skill but I was told that it dosnt work and sometimes runs into arguments

FW
 

Walgar

Newbie
when a group of beasts attack its becasue they dont know what will happen. When a "Real" army attacks and gets wiped out in short order people know it. ( Rezers and more normal intel )

Also when a place in at war all the time year after year it shows. People forget alot of other stuff and just think about the war. Art and the like take the frist hit and it go from there. Liveing in a world that is always at war would be hell on earth.

I also try to look at coin on thats that dont use coin as things that are easy to trade for coin. Body parts and the like used in Pots. and alc. bloods and bits of scrolls and ramdom other stuff that "we would Sell/need that are worth "X" coin. But reping stuff like that would be really cool.

More later
Tim Gailey
 
yeh war is ruff on the finer things but what happend is war became the art
designs on weapons and shields stories and such to entertain the troups perserving foods for travel to the war a lot of tecnoligy came about to improve the war
but it is a ruff life for sure!

the current battles in the world would be an example of a people so set on there ways that they will throw rocks at tanks that despite horrific losses still fight on
fighting an enemy thay have no hope of defeating except by making there enemy think there will be no end to it.

On the war plots Im actualy going on two oog ones so I know that happens and hopefully will effect things in game.

another thing
adventures are constantly getting choped burned frozen zaped bent folded stapled ect... but they go on
I know with my problems and pains every day that you do become desenstized to the pain but it still is ruff some days for me
I cant imagine going out getting chopped 3 or for times and doing it again and again and the idea of being choped to death and rezing only to go back to the fight would truly take some one of high conviction!

on tresure
Yeh I though it would be neat if it was we were harvesting monster parts pelts components and items and took them to sell to an NPC merchant
use skill and talk to barter for a better price and then would get coin

fw
 

paythin

Adept
Question: Why do monsters have coin?
Answer: It's called a Poktu and everyone is invited!
 

Gilwing

Baron
Alliance Logistics
Telokh_Amdo said:
I always looked at the war plots as happening on a much larger scale than wherever the PC's happen to be for that event. There are Ducal, Baronial, etc armies doing things "behind the scenes". The war is much larger than the battles the PCs fight. We take part in but a few battles.
I have to agree 100%.....look in the larger scale. We can only see what we interact with. So I can't see the other armies marching through fighting and dieing on either sides.

I also feel that the "pc class" are the best of the best. That is why we don't die as much, its why we can take on several enemies at one time.

Yes the BBG hears stories on his "day off (was an entrainment idea at one time)" while talking to other crazy BBG. "Damn those Ashbans are crazy. Don't mess with them. There were about 50 of them and 200 of us and they rolled us. Not one of them ressed at all." Well see thats why they are crazy (the BBG). They think, I can take em on. I can brag to my friends and be one of the few BBGs to roll them.
 

Walgar

Newbie
All the points are good and totaly true, but im still having a problem with suspending disbelief. Is there anyone eles that feels like there might be a bit to much war and battles and maybe not alot of normal stuff that you might find in a Rp game?

Another thing is the "knowing that its comming". Ie "Well we just got here something is going to attack anytime now" or we just got back from study something is going to attack anytime now". Just feels kinda corny that we are waiting to be attacked.

Tim
 
its true

You know there is going to be a final Wave battle and that is so not RL, if totaly fun and I love it but not RL
one gathering was a 4 day weekend we finished the main plot and there was a day and a half left
I said well I think now we need to deal with this blood cult thing that is rumored about knowing OOC that we had to haev somehting more there was a day and a half left and that is infact what happend the blood cult came up as next problem.

The main goal of the game is to Have fun and yup we do stuff total not like reality to make it fun suspend disbelief is the way it is
so I feal in my new to larping way but 30+ years of gaming fun is the number 1 rule and you just got to laugh at some things that shouldnt happen but do

FW
 

Gilwing

Baron
Alliance Logistics
Walgar said:
All the points are good and totaly true, but im still having a problem with suspending disbelief. Is there anyone eles that feels like there might be a bit to much war and battles and maybe not alot of normal stuff that you might find in a Rp game?

Another thing is the "knowing that its comming". Ie "Well we just got here something is going to attack anytime now" or we just got back from study something is going to attack anytime now". Just feels kinda corny that we are waiting to be attacked.

Tim
Try playing for over 10 years hehhehe...I understand where you are coming from Tim.
 

Kayden

Scholar
At the same time, and I'm sure it gets old, within the last year or so i've notice that "the final wave battle" has been something planned. In that I mean, we are often given a deadline or a time frame to complete something by sunday afternoon. Or when the monsters say that they will return tomorrow. Sure we know its coming but we are often given a reason, at least for the final battle. There are IG RP arguments for the first battle, the activity in town has increased and it has drawn the attention of the monsters to the tavern. I can imagine after playing the game for many years you get to the point where you've heard it all and nothing is "origianl" anymore, but life can be like that too.

As far as the wars going on, I would agree that we as the adventurers are only fighting a small portion of the battles. We often hear of the ducal armies either routing or being routed by enemy forces. The small fact that we as adventurers are elite and can over come overwhelming odds just further proves that adventureres are not (or not supposed to be) the "average smoes"
 

Walgar

Newbie
"Try playing for over 10 years hehhehe...I understand where you are coming from Tim."

Well its good to know thas its not just me being crazy. ;)
 
in the second die hard move whats his names wife (im so bad with names) crys saying "why do these things keep happening to us"
totaly silly that a massive hostage situation involving his wife should happen twice!

While a movie you can say well this is one day in his life the other 364 days are no events this isnt true with us
every RL day is a game day and after my 5th weekend of larping in a row I have helped save the world (in a small way) the last 5 weeks!

Incredibles said it "I just finished saving the world cant it just stay so for a little while" (not exact quote)

FW
 

markusdark

Knight
Walgar said:
Noone attacks up hill into a defended place held by better troops that outnumber them in Rl because they would be killed to the man. So why does it happen so much in game?
This doesn't happen IRL? I can't cite specific examples but I am sure that there have been times where dictators or insane leaders who didn't give a wit's care about their people sent them to slaughter by the thousands. I would say that a necromancer with a few noodles short of a tempura would do the same thing with his underlings.

The reason for the wars is that this is a high fantasy game. With that comes a bit of 'invunerability' that just a dozen highwaymen can't really cause a stir with the players. You need the hundreds of troops to begin to make a dent into the PC's defences and then begin to give them a challenge.

Although it is an RP game, it is also a Live Action game and many people come to them for the fights and glory and not just to negotiate a peace treaty between the apple farmers and the monsterous fruit bats. I personally don't go on any 'hunt and kill' missions because my character doesn't do those things. But the easiest way to entertain 30+ players is to have plots that involve them all at once - and the selection is rather slim if you remove the option for wars.
 

Walgar

Newbie
My hope is to get more players to want to do more mods get out and adventurer more and Rp more. I feel that some of the things stoping that are kinda oog.

People might feel like they could stop streamlining if they didnt have to fight a scaled to level army of bads 6 times per event.

With more crafting and craftmans skill out there money would more around more.

Players might bring out new and fun Pcs that are lower level if they feel that they can with the town getting wiped or them getting thashed by everything. ( because there under the Apl )

just some points to talk about

More later
Time Gailey
 

paythin

Adept
I like mods that's where the true action is but it takes a lot of mods to keep a lot of people happy for 2 days straight, one of the reasons to have an overall arch for the entire "town" to be a part of. It helps plot members by giving a bigger world picture that the players are involved in and not just "adventurering" on a local level. In an ideal situation each chapter should have 20 plot members, a huge budget for props and a permanent site with a castle, maze, a wizards tower, and earth hut, undground tunnels... etc.

Justin H-
 
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