Pole weapon construction?

We may both just be advocates of different styles.

To advance on a polearm without getting hit, a shield user is going to have to either circle a polearm fighter faster than they can pivot on the back foot, or use a one handed weapon to out leverage a two handed weapon. Not taking hits on counters is easy if one uses the defining feature of a polearm well. On a thrust, your weapon is longer than a swordsman's arm -and- weapon.

This is easier in Alliance combat than in other forms as one can come in low with confidence that the head protects most of the body while crouched, however I personally find crouching with a shield distatefully close to turtling under the current rules.
 
Bottom line is that the "best" style depends completely upon the wielder. It is whatever you are the most comfortable with that will work best for you. I've seen a girl with two daggers beat the snot out of people using shields. If you can use what you're using well, you've got just as good a chance as anybody. If the weapon(s) you're using aren't the right kind for your fighting style, you could be going up against somebody with half your stats and still lose.
 
I am by no means an expert at polearm. I was just stating what has happened the times I picked it up as an NPC. So are you saying that it is best to mostly thrust vrs a shield?
 
That's my preference, as it is a lot faster to recover to a ready position from a thrust, since all you have to do is slide the grip through your hands. If you've got the speed for it, I like to feint shield-side, then thrust center mass to just clear the inside edge of the shield. Really messes with people to take a hit dead center, and they can't move in on you without shoving the pole out of the way or stepping back first. 45 degree or entirely horizontal cuts at the shins are also effective, although they open you up for counter attack a bit more.

One of the hardest things to train into yourself when switching to a polearm is that the part of the weapon below your hands to the buttcap is a legal and very effective parrying surface, not just a counterweight. Bouncing an incoming attack off of the butt of a polearm leaves the head already in motion to counterattack at the opponent's arm while it is extended. :mrgreen:
 
I have found being able to switch from overhand attacks stance to side and underhand attack stances, very effective against shields and 2 weapon fighters...and then again I also find that most shield fighters tend, not that they mean to, get to close to try and negate the use of a polearm.

-Matt K.
 
Next revision, you guys should take a look at putting the max pole length up to 8-9 feet.

I'd think the way to take out a sword and board with a pike would be to attack constantly and agressively, with lots of feints. Make them work that shield, and keep them too busy to use the sword. dunno if it would work, though.
 
I've tried the 2 weapons against a pole arm.... ineffective for me, I've had much more success with shield sword combo, I personally have used polearms and staves and personally found that I don't much care for them, but then again I don't much care for chucking spells either and they are quite annoying to have chucked at you but hey that comes with adventuring lol
 
FrankManic said:
Next revision, you guys should take a look at putting the max pole length up to 8-9 feet.

I'd think the way to take out a sword and board with a pike would be to attack constantly and agressively, with lots of feints. Make them work that shield, and keep them too busy to use the sword. dunno if it would work, though.
Click to expand...

While were at it, the revision that considers this should also consider making Kite Spar the "standard" core material for making weapons. Kite spar could actually make safe 8-9 ft pole arm weapons, and Its safer, lighter, stronger, and less apt to do bad things in cold weather than pvc. Pretty much better in any way and I don't see why we shouldn't encourage this weapon design more prominently seeing as nearly every chapter allows it and most folks use it anyways.

Just my opinion. ;)
 
A pike is a VERY LONG pole weapon coming in varieties from ten to twenty feet.. Ours are more the garden variety in length. There are plenty of historical pole weapons within our length specs (72" max ?). Looking at a Museum Replicas catalog I see a Pole Axe and Bec De Corbin both at 68". The longest one they have is a Viking Halberd at 80", just 8" over our max.
 
Dreamingfurther said:
FrankManic said:
Next revision, you guys should take a look at putting the max pole length up to 8-9 feet.

I'd think the way to take out a sword and board with a pike would be to attack constantly and agressively, with lots of feints. Make them work that shield, and keep them too busy to use the sword. dunno if it would work, though.
Click to expand...

While were at it, the revision that considers this should also consider making Kite Spar the "standard" core material for making weapons. Kite spar could actually make safe 8-9 ft pole arm weapons, and Its safer, lighter, stronger, and less apt to do bad things in cold weather than pvc. Pretty much better in any way and I don't see why we shouldn't encourage this weapon design more prominently seeing as nearly every chapter allows it and most folks use it anyways.

Just my opinion. ;)
Click to expand...


Kite spar isn't sold at nearly every hardware store though. most folks preffer cloth covers to tape as well but for new players just starting out I think the point is to get a safe weapon that they can make from materials they are liekly to be able to get ahold of easily. Also I believe kite spar is more expensive than PVC but I haven't priced it in years.
 
http://www.tapplastics.com/shop/product.php?pid=144&

This stuff is awesome. I know most UL weapons that are made in Oregon and Seattle use this stuff for cores. The .745 stuff is great for two handed weapons, and is the perfect length for max length pole arms and staffs. I made a UL staff that was about 6" under max length for plot last month with extra foam on it for design and style and it still weighs about a pound. Plus, I've used the same core that's in my current long sword for about 8 years now for three different swords with I don't even know how many rebuilds on the blade foam, but the core is still solid.
 
Plus some people that like the weight/feel of PVC. Though putting in a rulebook that kitespar is allowed on a general basis would be fine though.
 
Angrydurf said:
Dreamingfurther said:
FrankManic said:
Next revision, you guys should take a look at putting the max pole length up to 8-9 feet.

I'd think the way to take out a sword and board with a pike would be to attack constantly and agressively, with lots of feints. Make them work that shield, and keep them too busy to use the sword. dunno if it would work, though.
Click to expand...

While were at it, the revision that considers this should also consider making Kite Spar the "standard" core material for making weapons. Kite spar could actually make safe 8-9 ft pole arm weapons, and Its safer, lighter, stronger, and less apt to do bad things in cold weather than pvc. Pretty much better in any way and I don't see why we shouldn't encourage this weapon design more prominently seeing as nearly every chapter allows it and most folks use it anyways.

Just my opinion. ;)
Click to expand...


Kite spar isn't sold at nearly every hardware store though. most folks preffer cloth covers to tape as well but for new players just starting out I think the point is to get a safe weapon that they can make from materials they are liekly to be able to get ahold of easily. Also I believe kite spar is more expensive than PVC but I haven't priced it in years.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure why this really is a big reason to hold us back when 5/8" pipe foam which is listed as the required thing for making every weapon is getting harder and harder to find and isn't sold at many hardware stores. In the same way it says you can make stuff out of two layers of thinner foam if you can't find 5/8" it could mention you can make stuff out of pvc.
 
I don't really see how its holding anything back really, The basic guidlines in the book outline the most commonly available materials to make a weapon that meets specs. Its not hard to find someone willing to expound on the wonders of kitespar at any given event so before long people that care to will switch.
 
True, but my point is I think it may be valuable to consider encouraging the "default" weapon design to be a more modern material given the 10+ years of growth and evolution the game has gone through. Our rules have improved and maybe now its time for our weapon material standards to improve as well. It could still mention pvc as a fallback. But the textile superiority of kite spar over pvc is a numerical fact, which is something that it might make sense to reflect in the rulebook IMO.

Its certainly true that anyone who cares will very quickly make and/or get a kite spar weapon once they come to a game. But this point goes beyond that fact.
 
The issue of course being that there is at least one chapter that does not allow UL weapons.
 
Right, and that is something that could be looked at and perhaps reconsidered. I mean that chapter could still have a special "no kite spar" rule if they wanted to even if the rulebook presented kite spar as usually the standard. I mean any chapter has the right to refuse any weapon even if it is just a pillow case if they want to the way the system and rules are set up at this point...

Basically my point is that kite spar has stopped being much of an "alternative" weapon core as it may have used to have been for the vast majority of people. So perhaps it could be presented as "the standard" which would make more sense IMO.
 
Hardly a standard if it is not allowed by chapters, no? I thought that having the base rules work the same everywhere was one of the things that made our games 'chapters' of the larger Alliance and not just splinter games using similar rules.
 
The chapter that doesn't allow kitespar has done so for safety considerations, as they are in a pretty cold climate and UL's are more likely to snap/shatter in extreme cold.

I have no issue with PVC remaining the standard and leaving kitespar as an alternate. Just because some of us prefer it doesn't mean we need to change the standard and force other chapters to adopt it.

Not everything around here is broken and needs fixing guys. Polearms are fine at the length they are (they're already a PITA to fit in the car lol). Cores standards are fine.
 
Telokh_Amdo said:
A pike is a VERY LONG pole weapon coming in varieties from ten to twenty feet.. Ours are more the garden variety in length. There are plenty of historical pole weapons within our length specs (72" max ?). Looking at a Museum Replicas catalog I see a Pole Axe and Bec De Corbin both at 68". The longest one they have is a Viking Halberd at 80", just 8" over our max.
Click to expand...

True. However, the historical styles used to fight with a sixty eight inch pole axe involved two hands widely spaced along the shaft and a lot of stabbing with the butt cap, sweeps, trips, joint locks, and general good fun.

If I had an eight foot spear I could comfortably put two hands on it and keep someone at a distance. A seventy two inch polearm, under the Alliance ruleset, seems almost to be an inferior two handed sword, in that you can stab or chop along a much shorter surface, without gaining much in the way of length. If it ever became an option I would gladly take another foot or two of length for dedicated pole weapons.
 
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