Maxondaerth
Squire
You make a 9 foot pole arm and as soon as I, as a two stick jock get inside the head of it you're done, because it's gonna be too long to pull it i vertically to effectively block/toe stab with.
Pole weapon construction?
- Thread starter FrankManic
- Start date
Ezri said:
This.
The standard really needs to be just that, standard, upgrades and sidegrades are fine where chapters allow it but the standard needs to work in all chapters and be available easily to all players, while it is true that 5/8" pipe foam is getting harder to come by it is the easiest material to find that works.
As for polearm length, longer ones as mentioned woudl be largely useless. Long pola arms were used almost exclusively in tightly packed formations that the average alliance chapter lacks the numbers to pull off (HQ might pull off one on a good day if everyone got the right skills) and would be torn apart by magic. The shorter pole weapons used in Alliance are much better in the light skirmish role that most alliance battles take the form of.
FrankManic said:
If you really want to see how bad of an idea this is, either go visit your local Amtgard chapter or come see any of two dozen people who play this game who will gladly explain in detail how poorly you would fare, in a one on one combat situation against pretty much any combat style.
I'm in Rochester, NY and would gladly offer my services.
Hammerfist
Artisan
tieran said:
QFT
Dreamingfurther
Baron
Ezri said:
I'm certainly not saying this is broken. But I'm saying why let ourselves continue using old outdated weapon construction guides when we could improve?
And as a genuine question, where do we as an organization draw the line when enough people are doing something that we make that the standard? Because from what I've seen its not just "some" who use kite spar, but rather more like %75 - %90. We wouldn't need to "force" others to accept this either even if kite spar was the suggested material, one can always make new rules backwards compatible.
And as for cold, actually I've tested both weapon cores and PVC is much more likely to freeze up and shatter in the cold than kite spar. Perhaps other alternative ultralight cores do worse in the cold, but if the worry is cold weather kite spar is actually safer.
All of this is just my perspective on the matter of course I'm not saying any of this really has to happen, and I love the game the way it is...
Dave:
I don't know that 75%-90% of people use kitespar.
I know people who have weapons based of PVC, fishing poles, kitespar, and other matrials that prove not to be too "whippy."
Banning kitespar is a decision that was made, probably based on experience, and I don't think that the rule book should be changed unless the owners want to bring it up as a vote at the next symposium. Perhaps adding an addendum that lists other guidelines when using alternate materials (to inform people of how to safely make UL weapons) but still says that they will only be accepted at a marshal's discretion.
I don't know that 75%-90% of people use kitespar.
I know people who have weapons based of PVC, fishing poles, kitespar, and other matrials that prove not to be too "whippy."
Banning kitespar is a decision that was made, probably based on experience, and I don't think that the rule book should be changed unless the owners want to bring it up as a vote at the next symposium. Perhaps adding an addendum that lists other guidelines when using alternate materials (to inform people of how to safely make UL weapons) but still says that they will only be accepted at a marshal's discretion.
Actually I haven't seen any weapons made of kitespar, and I've asked many people how they make their weapons (cus I'm new and I want to be informed before I make any)
In San Francisco chapter, the core of choice would have to be Bamboo... The NPC gear is mostly PVC, but players lean towards bamboo in this area. I've also heard that graphite golf clubs make great cores (I'm thinking of trying this out. Golf clubs are dirt cheap at thrift stores like goodwill)
If there is any kitespar here, I have yet to see it. So 80%-90%, I think not... maybe in your area it's more popular.
In San Francisco chapter, the core of choice would have to be Bamboo... The NPC gear is mostly PVC, but players lean towards bamboo in this area. I've also heard that graphite golf clubs make great cores (I'm thinking of trying this out. Golf clubs are dirt cheap at thrift stores like goodwill)
If there is any kitespar here, I have yet to see it. So 80%-90%, I think not... maybe in your area it's more popular.
Yea in all three west coast chapters kitespar is a relitive rarity. The alternative fcore of choice is often bamboo and sometimes graphite from golf clubs the problem being that alot of clubs are too narrow to work but thats a choice for the weapon marshals to make on a case by case.
Kitespar really isn't a standard and for NPC weapons cheap is usually the main requirement and PVC wins there.
PVC doesn't work well for long weapons though getting whippy at longer lengths so a more comprehensive list of alternative long cores could be helpful I will agree.
Most PVC staves and spears that first time players make from PVC end up failed due to the whippyness and that does kinda suck.
Kitespar really isn't a standard and for NPC weapons cheap is usually the main requirement and PVC wins there.
PVC doesn't work well for long weapons though getting whippy at longer lengths so a more comprehensive list of alternative long cores could be helpful I will agree.
Most PVC staves and spears that first time players make from PVC end up failed due to the whippyness and that does kinda suck.
Angrydurf said:
the Ohio Pink Staff of doom is what came to mind first.. and a poor little stone elf that had to wield it for the weekend.. (Not me...)
The bamboo that I saw in action came straight from the SF chapter. The former owners came to the first 'national' event with it. It was cloth covered and was very light, and seemed very sturdy.
I prefer the graphite cores, because I can make the counter weights for them specific to the weapon. Bamboo it would seem would be more difficult to accomplish the same thing.
Anything longer than a short sword, I shy away from PVC... It just hurts too much, and leaves impact marks, just to be lightly swung in combat...
Composite construction weapons, seems to be some of the better options. It generally costs less, since you can use PVC for the shaft that is held, then kite spar/graphite/whatever for the shaft to the blade. But as some have said, not always allowed in all chapters.
Dagohir generally allows the goofy long weapons (as long as you want, you can bring it out) and they are really easy to get around, and tool the snot out of people.
PVC swung at the same speed as one of the various UL cores can leave marks, inertia is a bitch, thouge you are right that means swing slower.
Bamboo makes excelent long weapons it has very little flex over its length and especially in spring is pretty easy to find. I usually bring a small section of my pipe foam to check for a good fit as it does vary on width more than other core materials but tends to have very little taper to it.
Bamboo makes excelent long weapons it has very little flex over its length and especially in spring is pretty easy to find. I usually bring a small section of my pipe foam to check for a good fit as it does vary on width more than other core materials but tends to have very little taper to it.
FrankManic
Artisan
tieran said:
I am fully aware that, in single combat under the Alliance and Amtgard ruleset a spear is not terribly effective in single combat. I believe that is an artifact of the ruleset rather than a reflection of real life. Spears are considerably more effective under Belegarth rules, where a player can strike, hook, and push shields or body check an opponent. A real spear tends to come with some sort of stabbing point on both ends. In addition, two weapon is not a particularly viable combat style with real weapons, and is certainly not viable in the times and places one was likely to encounter an eight foot lugged spear. Additionally, if someone gets 'inside your range' with a real spear you can at least try to stave their skull in with the shaft.
Finally, spears may be rubbish in solo combat, but they do wonders in a shield wall. Being able to reach out from behind the fist rank and threaten someone, or tag someone a considerable distance away without coming out from behind my shield is a useful advantage.
That said, I feel that the utility of a weapon should not matter when it comes to evaluating it's safety. If someone can make a three handled credenza that passes safety check then they should be allowed to play with it. Similarly, if they can manufacture an 8 foot spear that isn't inherently less safe than a 6 foot spear more power too them, and I'll be happy to let you beat me to death if that makes you feel better about it.
Hammerfist
Artisan
So is your point that there should be no weapon standardization and anyone can make whatever they want as long as it passes the saftey requirements?
I presonally am in favor of the current standardiztion as it allows for simplifcation of the process for the staff. Both logistics and marshalls, it gives logistics as set production value that is easy for them to determine and by limiting the scope of weapons makes life easier for marshals checking weapons and marshalling how they are used (such as thrusting with what should be a blunt weapon).
I presonally am in favor of the current standardiztion as it allows for simplifcation of the process for the staff. Both logistics and marshalls, it gives logistics as set production value that is easy for them to determine and by limiting the scope of weapons makes life easier for marshals checking weapons and marshalling how they are used (such as thrusting with what should be a blunt weapon).
Dreamingfurther
Baron
I agree with weapon standardization. But I could see with the proper non-bendy materials and possibly a disclaimer in the rulebook that you can't make supper long weapons out of good ole pvc a "pike" or some other name for a really long weapon, or just extend the max length for polearm...
I guess my thing with kite spar vs. pvc is what someone mentioned happened exactly to me. I made like 3 or 4 cool polearm weapons to donate my first big event out of pvc. And they all failed for whipyness... Very disappointing since I made them "to the letter" according to the book. It should at least say something about needing some non pvc core for polearms IMO.
I guess my thing with kite spar vs. pvc is what someone mentioned happened exactly to me. I made like 3 or 4 cool polearm weapons to donate my first big event out of pvc. And they all failed for whipyness... Very disappointing since I made them "to the letter" according to the book. It should at least say something about needing some non pvc core for polearms IMO.
AllianceCHI
Baron
Besides how would you get a 20 foot pike to game?
Dreamingfurther said:
the other end of the making pole arms, not whippy, but stiff... To make them max length out of PVC (not CPVC) they are almost as heavy as using real pole weapons, and are almost categorically unsafe. (*disclaimer* -using 1" pvc, correct foam, and proper Alliance building techniques, and unsafe is measured by our standard fighting style of speed over power)
I have built some pole weapons using 5' shower rods, and increasing the amount of foam on them. Stiff, light, and very safe. $5 for the core, if they last a year or two, they have paid for themselves.
vikingsurvivor
Newbie
Madhawk said:
Actually A vast majority of my tools are kitespar, the problem around here with kitespar is the price 15.25 for a piece 64"
of .745 verses 3 bucks for PVC or around the same for bamboo
Dreamingfurther
Baron
Order online.