Dreamingfurther
Baron
Clearly sarcasm does not carry well over the interwebs... lol Its all good. 
Poll - Our first No Cap Game
- Thread starter Lurin
- Start date
not sure if there really is anything that is an epic threat in alliance. PC's always win? so why is that even an option? now before a huge thunderous backlash of naysayers comes my way i would like to make it clear that this is only in my personal experience which in comparison to many of you is limited. i would say the game at times lacks that element of "you need to know when you are outgunned" (especially if it's a town mod i've never seen one of those failed) really not to worried about it, just a conversation point. what is an epic threat?
-dawson
-dawson
Lurin
Duke
We've actually had a good number of modules where for the players 'victory' has been to get most of the folks out alive, now if you think defeat has to mean a TPK, I expect that will happen one day, but that should almost always be because of player choice (as in stand to the last to protect XXX) or stubbornness (as in the PCs refuse to back down when they probably really should). Currently our local players tend to throw all their weight behind a rescue mission whenever there is a wipe of any kind, blowing life spells and town resources to save those folks that get themselves in trouble. That's a really cool in game thing, but will likely end up with a TPK as it involves committing all of the town resources when it happens ^.^.
That being said, we've definitely seen some players stomp their feet and grouse out of game when surprised with a challenge or forced to retreat as part of a plot line and it's something we tend to be very tender with and try to save for those players who do things in game they really should know are going to provoke bad guys in game to take steps, and some of that has started to happen.
That being said, we've definitely seen some players stomp their feet and grouse out of game when surprised with a challenge or forced to retreat as part of a plot line and it's something we tend to be very tender with and try to save for those players who do things in game they really should know are going to provoke bad guys in game to take steps, and some of that has started to happen.
that makes sense. i do agree that PC's do make deep digs into resources at times to prevent such things. my most recent reminder of that is the efforts of the blacksmiths and other crafters on the castle walls/gates. i don't necessarily mean a TPK but more of a forced retreat more than once or after the PC's have already got what they went for. i do see how there is a real challenge on making something truly difficult without being outright ridiculous. point taken though...
Lok said:
Honestly, Dawson, it might be the time period you've played. I haven't seen SoMN or Chi-town bring out something I was afraid the town couldn't take in the last couple years (admittedly, I've only made a couple SoMN events in that time), but that isn't plot's fault. My experience has been that whatever they bring out probably doesn't have enough backup minions to deal with the people who swing enough to get through it's defenses charging in and delivering a circle beating until the NPC drops from being unable to count the hits, or enough defenses to stand up to all the one-shot kills that haven't been expended all weekend being thrown at once.
Both of these issues are solvable by more NPCs, and hooks that keep the higher-powered adventurers burning resources rather than sitting in their cabins all day until it's time to come out and go top-down on the big bad. Neither is an easy thing to make happen, though.
That said, it was great fun watching the expression on the NPC's face at my last event up there, when Josh finally got tired of the town failing at organization and pulled out his scrolls to go top-down on a Forsaken. Smoking boots is always hilarious when unexpected.
In the end, though, I haven't had real terror since Kzoo. Nothing has been as scary as running half a mile in plate, from the lake to the cabins, with an army of dark elves chasing us.dragonfire8974
Scout
you have to recognize that a lot of our last adventures have actually occured with a sizeable number of new and newer players. having a big buff forsaken that can threaten the big names in the chapter would just mow straight through all the first, second, and third timers that we get coming to the events. I think we have gotten to an APL ten at the highest in the last year? I don't know particularly, but every time I have been told the APL of our events, it has been below 10, even when we have our big names making their appearances.
as one of the fighters who feels the need to be a buffer for the influx of squishies
as one of the fighters who feels the need to be a buffer for the influx of squishies
It may just be my philosophy, but APL really doesn't matter as far as putting the tension into the game. What makes the difference is wearing the PC's down. Rather than scale up a monster, add 2-3 more waves to the encounter, and watch people get wide-eyed as their resources run out.
One of the best and most frightening mods I ever NPC'd for was a fishbowl double-hooked mod at a halloween event. We were sent out (at an APL 17 game) as 15 body zombies, unintelligent and swinging 2s on a single short-sword length claw, with instructions to only hit moving targets. Infinite pops for 10 minutes, on a 5-count spawn. Why was it so much fun? Because we hammed it up. Pure Romero zombie goodness, down to the groans, staggers, and thousand yard stare. Why was it -scary-? Because we had almost 1-1 PC/NPC ratio, and even with level 15-20 PC's in the crowd, the eventual realization that slow 2's from a mob that just keeps coming will run you out of ability to keep taking damage was absolutely devastating.
Another great mod example is the endurance line battle. The PC's were blockading the front of a cabin while several rituals were cast inside, which would need roughly an hour and a half to complete if all went well. Of course, all did not go well. But this meant that ~15 PC's fought in a clearing against ~6 NPC's in waves for 3 hours. The NPCs were dark elf assassins, coming in with a couple globes of alchemy each, and spawning a new wave every 10 minutes or so while the Big Bad Drider stopped by every third wave to throw a few spells until we could chase him off, all the while taunting him madly. This was pretty epic, and scary as well given that the NPCs just kept coming, while our stores of healing and purification had -very- finite limits.
When you're in a situation where you have a number of new players like that, it really calls for a split mod hook. Send them off onto a scaled mod with a couple NPCs you can trust to take out a secondary target such as the enemy's reserves or supply stores while the big guys go after the fight scaled for them. It is very important, plotwise, to make sure that the lower level players -feel- and -know- that they were doing something important, and have somehow significantly affected the plot. If you don't have a split to hook them to, then at least give them some of the main enemies' backup to fight in the main battle, and let your NPCs know how to react. After all, a big bad guy isn't really going to consider that guy swinging 2's at him worth killing when there are really threatening targets on the field. That's what minions are for!
One of the best and most frightening mods I ever NPC'd for was a fishbowl double-hooked mod at a halloween event. We were sent out (at an APL 17 game) as 15 body zombies, unintelligent and swinging 2s on a single short-sword length claw, with instructions to only hit moving targets. Infinite pops for 10 minutes, on a 5-count spawn. Why was it so much fun? Because we hammed it up. Pure Romero zombie goodness, down to the groans, staggers, and thousand yard stare. Why was it -scary-? Because we had almost 1-1 PC/NPC ratio, and even with level 15-20 PC's in the crowd, the eventual realization that slow 2's from a mob that just keeps coming will run you out of ability to keep taking damage was absolutely devastating.
Another great mod example is the endurance line battle. The PC's were blockading the front of a cabin while several rituals were cast inside, which would need roughly an hour and a half to complete if all went well. Of course, all did not go well. But this meant that ~15 PC's fought in a clearing against ~6 NPC's in waves for 3 hours. The NPCs were dark elf assassins, coming in with a couple globes of alchemy each, and spawning a new wave every 10 minutes or so while the Big Bad Drider stopped by every third wave to throw a few spells until we could chase him off, all the while taunting him madly. This was pretty epic, and scary as well given that the NPCs just kept coming, while our stores of healing and purification had -very- finite limits.
When you're in a situation where you have a number of new players like that, it really calls for a split mod hook. Send them off onto a scaled mod with a couple NPCs you can trust to take out a secondary target such as the enemy's reserves or supply stores while the big guys go after the fight scaled for them. It is very important, plotwise, to make sure that the lower level players -feel- and -know- that they were doing something important, and have somehow significantly affected the plot. If you don't have a split to hook them to, then at least give them some of the main enemies' backup to fight in the main battle, and let your NPCs know how to react. After all, a big bad guy isn't really going to consider that guy swinging 2's at him worth killing when there are really threatening targets on the field. That's what minions are for!
makes sense and i could see it being the time frame I've played in. i think it would be easier to imagine an epic threat if i hadn't heard the phrase "we want the PC's to win" or something similar to it multiple times before. for good reason i understand the game having the PC's win nearly 100% of the time... it keeps people coming back and it helps drive a longer storyline. although i think it does foster an expectation to win in the eyes of the PC though, or at least that's what i've seen/felt (i'm guilty of this myself at times).i get it but, i think there is a "you can lose" aspect missing. but this brings me back to the same argument i had over death buybacks and how i thought they were a bad idea. many don't want to lose that connection to their character or the real time/money investment involved. but at the same time if you're characters can't lose and lose multiple times what have they really done? just gone for hay ride? i think back to boxing... the most i've ever learned was from a serious beating... then coming back correcting those mistakes and getting the win... even if just barely. i don't know... like i said, i'm just making conversation. i enjoy the game just wasn't sure if an epic threat is a real thing in the game. someone will have to prove me wrong. :emo:
I must say I felt pretty scared at the castle when the corrupt were attacking, I thought we might be screwed, and saw things starting to fall apart, but then we pulled it together in the end. It did make me feel awesome when we did pull through. Thats how I felt at least.
EricMarsters
Fighter
Terrel said:
See ya in the Rez Circle then.