[.11] Potency and Spell Store

DiscOH

Artisan
Do these effects interact?

Do you need to have potency active while casting the spell into the item or while activating the item?
 
Hmm... I can't say for certain about using Potency on a spell cast into a Spell Store, but I would say that you couldn't apply Potency to a spell cast out of one, for a similar reason as why Flexible Casting and Combined Strike/United Blow can't be combined: Potency specifies the spell has to be cast either from memory or a Battle Magic Scroll, and a Spell Store is technically neither of those.

If a spell cast into a Spell Store can be affected by Potency, then I would say it's up to the caster to inform the keeper of said Spell Store of that fact, and then it would fall to that person to remember that the spell was enhanced by Potency.
 

DiscOH

Artisan
If a spell cast into a Spell Store can be affected by Potency, then I would say it's up to the caster to inform the keeper of said Spell Store of that fact, and then it would fall to that person to remember that the spell was enhanced by Potency.
The alternative is that a signature spell would take up a slot 1 level higher

Storm spell interactions are the thing I'm most interested in.
 
Potency doesn't actually increase the level of the Spell at all, so I'm not sure if that would be the way it would work; I think it's most likely that Potency and Spell Store will be ruled as non-functional together (you simply can't apply Potency to a spell that goes into a Spell Store at all) than that Potency affects the level of the spell going into one (particularly in the case of 9th-Level spells, because there's no 10th-Level of spells to increase it to).

Concerning Storms, if you can Potency something into a Spell Store, I think it would work exactly the same as any other spell; other than requiring a Spell Store to be physically on your person to be cast into it (it was discussed at one of our chapters packet meetings that this is the case), there's nothing particularly different about a Storm spell interacting with Spell Store that would affect its interaction with Potency.
 

DiscOH

Artisan
Potency doesn't actually increase the level of the Spell at all
Totally agree, but (unless I'm missing something) signature spell incants only differ in level by their damage call.

If you cast something into a spell store while potency was active, the absorbed spell might not match the incant (assuming "I evoke a 10 ice bolt" was actually a level 1 evocation spell).
 

Feldor

Scholar
Marshal
So I could see a couple ways it could be interpreted:

1. You could view Potency as an effect present on the caster, like any other durasive effect. So it in no way interacts with putting a spell in to the spell store. The spell store stores the spell, not the effect the spell is generating, and not any of the effects on the caster at the time of casting.
2. You could read it as the Potency only having a duration of 10 minutes, so if the spell is not cast out of the spell store within the duration of the Potency, than it is no longer under the effect of the Potency.
3. Spell store snapshots the spell effect, and should absolutely store the spell with the potency effect.

Storm spells are definitely not spell storable (can not be absorbed) but the individual packets might be. Potency says it only works on memorized spells and battle magic scrolls, and its unclear if the packets you throw as part of a storm count as a memorized spell, but I'm betting they are not (if they were, they could be converted via flexible casting for example); and thus are not valid targets for potency.
 
I said it elsewhere, but at one of our chapters packet discussions we confirmed that a Storm spell CAN be put into a Spell Store, so long as the Spell Store is on an item that is on the caster's person at the time of casting; it can then be given away to someone else and used as normal. It's a strange exception, but our Owner said this is accurate, and so far no one from ARC has said this is wrong.

Potency also works with Storm spells, as the effect of the spells is essentially 'throw your next 8/15 packets with 10 points of a specified type so long as you maintain Focus and don't move your feet', and each individual packet is not its own spell; remember that you lose any unspent packets if you break your Focus on the spell (such as by calling a Smart Defense), and that Potency can't be applied to a Storm if you choose the Magic type for your Storm (because Potency itself only allows Healing, Chaos, Stone, Lightning, Ice, and Flame to be increased).
 

Feldor

Scholar
Marshal
Your chapter may have clarified that storm can be in a spell store, but the storm description in the the current release of the "ARB 2 PT - v0.11b" says that storm can not be absorbed, which is explicitly required by the Spell Store effect. Assuming your chapter's clarification is correct, this seems like a great thing to get added to the ARB 2 PT document. But at the moment, that's not what current document says. Its possibly also relevant that the lesser storm spells are also not scrollable or potionable -- so can't be "stored" via that means, which might imply the ARC had intended it not to be. Regardless, we will see if it gets clarified in the next revision of the ARB 2 PT or not.
 
It says the Storm spell itself is never thrown to be reflected or absorbed, and that only the packets are thrown; it doesn't say you're unable to absorb it during the casting of the spell on yourself, only that you can't use a packet to cast it on someone else for the purposes of reflecting or absorbing it. There's a difference between those two things, which is why it can't be absorbed into a Spell Store being held by somebody else, but it can be absorbed into a Spell Store held by the caster. I did say it's a strange exception.
 

Durnic

Squire
Owner
Oregon Staff
Marshal
I was pretty confident that @Polare had ruled previous in this forum that Storms are not able to be spell stored, but my attempts at finding said thread have failed.

Thus, I will shove my confidence somewhere else and simply await his response in this thread.
 
Just for the record, I ran my own search of this forum and the 2.0 archive just now for both just "Storm" as well as "Spell Store" posted by Polare, and neither returned any posts by addressing the issue.

However, Durnic, if you as an Owner would like to officially say that Storm Spells are not intended in any way to be able to be stored by a Spell Store, and that any interpretation of their wording to allow such a thing is either an unintentional misreading or a purposeful twisting of them, then I will 100% back you up on that, and stand by it unless and until ARC swoops in to confirm this weird exception as true. :)
 

Gorphy

Newbie
This post explains why storm spells do not interact with Empowered Strike or Enhanced Strike skills.

https://alliancelarp.com/forum/posts/296915/

I would expect the same reasoning would apply to spell store, but it might not.
 

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
This post explains why storm spells do not interact with Empowered Strike or Enhanced Strike skills.

https://alliancelarp.com/forum/posts/296915/

I would expect the same reasoning would apply to spell store, but it might not.
My thoughts are similar.

I do not believe that you can mechanically transfer a Storm spell to another target, even if that target is an object in the possession of the caster, unless Spell Store/Enchantment specifically have text that enable this exception. If they do, or are intended to, cool. I, personally, have no issue with the idea of storing a Storm spell to enable another character to be able to use it. The idea is that it’s not adding power to the game, merely transferring it.

Transferring power is cool, because it enables teamwork. It causes people to work together. That’s really important for the game.

TL;DR: I feel the caster-only mechanics prevent storage of Storms, but I’d totally be happy with being wrong on that.
 
Only problem with that is that both Empowered and Enhanced Strike specify that they are Spell Strikes, and Storms specifically note that they cannot be cast on targets other than the caster; you could, in theory, Spell Strike a Storm on yourself, but you would then have to grab packets to throw anyway because of the unique effect that Storms have of granting packets, so I'm not sure it would be any fast to Spell Strike it over just casting the spell normally.

Spell Store states that it absorbs the spell into a slot, which is why the exception exists per the current wording of both Storm spells and Spell Store. You do, of course, have to have a packet in your hand and touchcast a Storm spell on yourself, and spells activate on touchcast even if not touching your body directly, so touching that packet to the item with a Spell Store is within the bounds of both spell and Spell Store requirements. In any event, this has gone wildly off topic, so I'm going to drop the discussion of it in this thread for now. If anyone wants to continue the discussion with me, my inbox is open or a new thread can be started.

We're still waiting for an Owner or ARC to confirm how Potency works with Spell Store, or if they're intended to be used in conjunction at all.
 

norman b

Squire
Marshal
As for storms, it may have been in conversation in person with @Polare and @Durnic that storm spells could not be spell stored. Reasoning is that you cast the spell upon yourself without a packet (unlike all other spells). The spell simply allows you access to the packets. It was similar to the Meditate rules where you cast a storm spell, dirt the first packet, and then Meditate later because you missed one. Because you cant miss a spell that is just cast upon yourself (hence no spell store).
 

Polare

Count
Alliance Rules
Moderator
Seattle Staff
Hiya folks,

I'm currently in Hawaii and prepping to ride out a hurricane in a vacation rental. Sorry to say that that takes priority over working through ARC stuff at the moment :) I (and the other ARC folks) will take a look at questions in this forum in the next couple of weeks, but please have patience until then.

Thanks,
Bryan
 

Durnic

Squire
Owner
Oregon Staff
Marshal
How dare you.
 
Last edited:

MondayMcGee

Scholar
San Francisco Staff
Stay safe!
 

Polare

Count
Alliance Rules
Moderator
Seattle Staff
The intent of the spell is to allow the caster to use the Storm, not to allow others to use the Storm through alternative means. We will explicitly add clauses to Memory Strike, Warrior's Incantation, and Spell Store noting that Storm spells may not be put into or channeled through these Rituals.

Note that the Enchant Ritual does allow Storm spells to be created (as times-ever magic items) due to its explicit wording, which also allows things like Spell Strikes and Monster abilities.

-Bryan Gregory
ARC
 
Top