Progression of Power

Sheakhan said:
I dunno, I'm a level 7ish rogue and I feel much more useful on my own.

Put me in a large battle and I'm lucky to do anything productive, but solo against 1-2 enemies, or against small groups with my ig foster brother and I feel like a champion.
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People aren't utilizing you properly in a large battle then. Or you aren't being sneaky enough.

Usually the rogues should be hiding in the woods doing hit-and-runs, using the chaos of battle to do the same or acting on the wings of the line as skirmishers.

Either that, or learn to use a bow. :P
 
Or I'm just not playing a team player. :p
 
The Following is My Own Opinion, your mileage may vary:

Best part of this game is tactics + teamwork.

PCs will 89.4% of the time out number NPCs due to most finding it more enjoyable to play their character, rather then random crunchy, if they are paying for the game.
As such, most NPCs will be 150-200% the capabilities of the average individual fighting them, in order to make it a challenge.
If you're fighting the town as a boss mob, then add a zero or two to that percentage.
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My younger years were playing a fighter, I did not have a crew, and I died a lot. Noone took me under their wing or showed me the ropes, it was the School of Hard Knocks.

Eventually, I was picked up by an established crew who needed someone to sleep in front of the door, for NPCs to trip over, ie. someone to die first so the rest of the group to get their crap together.

Then due to actions of a Fae, I ended up a Cele Scholar, who I played as a boomchuck (being an ex-orc fighter). This class change ended up forcing me to learn tactical positioning both of myself, the targets, and the intervening bodies, as Cele scholars weren't a thing a the time, being viewed as being useless as we were in an heavy undead game.

However, learning value of small group tactics, and how work as a squishy with some shield fighters, helped my game immensely.

The shield fighters found, that if they stayed close enough together to attack one NPC as a mini-team, they had much more survivability.
If they had a boom-chuck for sudden takedowns or dealing with hard targets, they were even more effective as the artillery would step up and blow the crap out of the orcs, when the fighters were backing off due to getting beat up.
Boom chuck found that they didn't die due to speedbumps, nor did they waste as many spells burning down already injured targets.
Healer if available found that their spells lasted longer, and were more meaningful, when damage incoming was reduced due to crowd control, and offensive weakening of the targets (bindomancy + summoned force + repels)
If we had non-shield fighters ie. combat/assassination rogues, 2handed fighters, duel wielding skirmishers, they found that with a rock solid wall of 1+ shields with a cannon that is taking out "adds" or extra enemies as a unreachable distraction (assuming the shield was up) they could flank and attack from the sides with much more flexibility due to the distraction of the nukes.

Later as an Earth Templar hybrid using 2hander or sword and board, this tactical knowledge was 1000% times more useful when playing with every other class, as I KNEW how to work with others, yes I could fill any one roll by myself, but having allies, I could be a combat multipler where I could lead and run the battle, calling flank advances and moving the whole 60 man PC group around as a large force, and involve myself as necessary yet granting awareness to others who were specializing in their roles.
 
Draven said:
Extra note:

Magic items. Given time, activatable Purifies, Releases, Cloaks, Healing, all mean that you withstand the onslaught to get to the chucker, at which point you turn him into a fine, red mist.

And you will feel like a Spartan.
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This is, unfortunately, the real answer with the current way the system is put together. You either have layered defenses from MIs, or the stuff statted for the players that do eats you alive with one shot takeouts.

If there's one thing I wish I knew when I was your level, it's that MIs are where the real character power is, and you should be planning for and working towards the ones you need from day 1 if you want to be able to hang with it at mid to high level.
 
meirya said:
Additionally, Alliance is explicitly designed so that you need someone from every class to get stuff done. If you're a fighter by yourself, or a team of only fighters, you're going to get eaten alive if your opponent has a caster or a gas rogue. If you're a team of casters, well, you might survive your first wave but then you're dead. If you don't bring someone with legerdemain, you're going to have difficulty with traps, and that trapped box of treasure and notes might get blown up to uselessness. It's a team game, and I have read posts from the administration saying that they wanted people to specialize and for it to be very costly for any one person to be able to do everything.
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This. Absolutely. You got it. :)
 
Gilwing said:
and High Magic
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I'm guessing you're talking about Magic Augmentation here? Because I genuinely have no idea how High Magic otherwise makes you less reliant on other people than you'd normally be. Unless you're talking about Cloaks/Banes, but martial classes get Parries/Dodges/Ripostes, so I don't think you meant that.
 
Magic Augmentation, Cloak, Bane definitely the high magics that grant the hybrids especially allot of survivability. As a Templar you just build buy a few parries, magic armors for a few more, high magic for cloaks, magic dispels or purifies for the rest. Adept, pretty much the same except you have to rely strictly on magic armors for those parries but you can use evades to negate the tap eviscerate combo's and you have doge.

Joe S.
 
All that being said, hopefully monsters refrain from just gunning down everyone in sight, especially the low level players, but sometimes it happens. Part of it is the monster, and the player behind the monster using a little restraint, although all of us get caught up from time to time. Either way, as a new player on a mixed battle field, it is best to attach yourself to someone or find someone to talk to after a battle and just ask what you could have done. There are allot of players who will talk to you and help you assess options. This is part of how to learn the game and how to make your place in it. No one is going to come in off the street cold and rock-star a wave battle....the important thing to remember is that is okay and to find your place, and find your fun and grow into the silliness. Hey, if you want to try and go for it an be ambitious, eventually it is your risk and good luck to you (at least that is what I would say in game).

Joe S.
 
Wait, you mean to tell me that people make honest attempts to maximize the playstyle of their chosen class? Blasphemy!
 
You're right that low level fighters have trouble staying in fights. Take out effects will stop you. If you have a team, you'll want to pool purify potions - it's expensive, but you have to pay to stay in the fight. If it makes you feel any better, low level scholars and rogues and split classes are also easy to take out of a fight.

It does change -in some ways- at high level. A high level fighter will have parries but spells and gasses are still a problem. A high level fighter needs magic items or teammates to help keep them in the fight. A low level fighter actually needs the same thing, but the high level is more likely to have magic items and teammates with the resources to keep them standing.

A scholar, templar, or adept would have magic items and high magic to keep themselves in the fight plus spells to keep their friends in the fight. Some people say high magic isn't broken, but I think HM very strong. Cloak this, bane that, magic purify / dispel, more arcane armor - all things that keep you in the fight longer and reduce the need for teammates to rescue you.



Parzivel said:
Hello,

I am fairly new, having now been to two events (although I've goblin stamped enough to be 5th level), and I am trying to figure out if I am just in totally the wrong skill progression. I'm a fighter. I've got decent OOG fighting skill and good equipment. But I feel like I will never really get a chance to fight. Everything I find has nausea, or fear, or bind, or sleep, or web, and although I have potions of Spell Shield and try to have a Poison Shield up... I seem to spend my time (and money) just keeping those up. Smacking beasts never really seems to happen, and when it does, there are usually 50 of us doing the same thing, so its not like I'm really even helping out. Most important things fall over after the second Dragon's Breath scroll, or the after the Lightning Storm, or whatnot... the fighters are really just there to yell numbers loudly to keep the BBG from dodging around too much. I don't even generally wear my armor, because it never seems to matter... everything is debilitating effects or Chaos damage anyway. My first game, at the big fight, I got hit with nausea, nausea, paralysis, web, paralysis from the first monster we came to, and then killed. I coulda dodged one, maybe two, but three, four, and five were just as bad.

Do I have this totally wrong? Does it stay like this? Does it change at higher levels? Our whole group is basically less than 70 Build, so maybe that changes things? Is the main skill of the fighter to dodge spell packets? What do/can fighters actually contribute?
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