Pssst!
- Thread starter Lurin
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Lurin
Duke
Alas the MN cap is indeed still 'that low' due to unfortunate RL events we've had to regain our footing to be able to put the best game we can out there.
As to the 105 cap being low...
An 'average' Alliance season seems to be about 7-9 games. If you get a monthly blanket every month and play a long weekend every single month, you'll end up with 105 after 10 months. A less agressive schedule, without multiple event blankets etc. and you'll see an 'average' player hit that cap in about 2 years of fairly dedicated play (without constant monthly blankets it takes quite a few more events to get there obviously).
Now I'd love to see the alliance at large come visit, its great fun. But we also had 21 people at the last event and many of them professed their thanks for a game that was Balanced for their lower BP characters, and an environment where even the scrub with 15 Build was an important force. Thats a great thing, I'm also looking forward to a more BP mature game, but to be honest its also something we want to watch Extremely closely. Take a look around these boards (and the old ones if they were up) how many references do you see to the game we love moving towards a higher level stance? Personally for me, it was a huge culture shock when we headed down to Chicago moving from orcs swinging 3s to Ice elementals ranging from 5s to 1000 massive (at least it was a slow, immoble swinger) Paul runs a great game and we stuck it out and its payed off in spades, but those first couple of games for younger players can be impressively frustrating even properly balanced. Not to mention the presence of life spells really seems to rachet down the pucker factor :mrgreen: .
Anyway to make a long discussion short, We've got a crop of extremely fun, creative players who happen to be newer to the game and I plan to do everything in my power to give them a game they'll enjoy and tell stories about afterwards. I'd love to have some experienced players come play, the people we see coming up from Iowa add amazingly to our games. The bp limits will raise when appropriate, and the mechanisms for seeing the restrictions on magic items relaxed are already in place (Don't ask, I'm not sharing, FOIG :twisted: ) But until then, I encourage you to think of Minnesota as a 'safe haven' to try out new character concepts in a place where you can hold your own/have a bigger impact right from the beginning.
As to the 105 cap being low...
An 'average' Alliance season seems to be about 7-9 games. If you get a monthly blanket every month and play a long weekend every single month, you'll end up with 105 after 10 months. A less agressive schedule, without multiple event blankets etc. and you'll see an 'average' player hit that cap in about 2 years of fairly dedicated play (without constant monthly blankets it takes quite a few more events to get there obviously).
Now I'd love to see the alliance at large come visit, its great fun. But we also had 21 people at the last event and many of them professed their thanks for a game that was Balanced for their lower BP characters, and an environment where even the scrub with 15 Build was an important force. Thats a great thing, I'm also looking forward to a more BP mature game, but to be honest its also something we want to watch Extremely closely. Take a look around these boards (and the old ones if they were up) how many references do you see to the game we love moving towards a higher level stance? Personally for me, it was a huge culture shock when we headed down to Chicago moving from orcs swinging 3s to Ice elementals ranging from 5s to 1000 massive (at least it was a slow, immoble swinger) Paul runs a great game and we stuck it out and its payed off in spades, but those first couple of games for younger players can be impressively frustrating even properly balanced. Not to mention the presence of life spells really seems to rachet down the pucker factor :mrgreen: .
Anyway to make a long discussion short, We've got a crop of extremely fun, creative players who happen to be newer to the game and I plan to do everything in my power to give them a game they'll enjoy and tell stories about afterwards. I'd love to have some experienced players come play, the people we see coming up from Iowa add amazingly to our games. The bp limits will raise when appropriate, and the mechanisms for seeing the restrictions on magic items relaxed are already in place (Don't ask, I'm not sharing, FOIG :twisted: ) But until then, I encourage you to think of Minnesota as a 'safe haven' to try out new character concepts in a place where you can hold your own/have a bigger impact right from the beginning.
Elysia
Newbie
Just as a slight note on that whole "105 build is too low" thing...
I think it's slightly a disservice to the spirit of the game itself to be so attached to the build on your character that you only want to play in games where you can have all of your cookies. I mean, I think we all have some "character attachment" issues... but I'm glad to say that mine stems from a love of the person I've created, not the points I've put onto her.
I guess maybe it's a carry-over from playing in Chicago games, or perhaps just LARPing in general (which I do a lot of beyond Alliance, admittedly) where people can't just seem to get off of the "I love my huge XP/build character" horse. I've seen games where low-XP/build characters do some amazing things... and frankly, I'd love to see more of it. It fosters a kind of IG/OOG mentality that removes the focus from build and puts it on deeds -- because build isn't something that you should consider IG and I think we all are pretty guilty of doing that in one place or another.
You know you have. Be honest. I've seen it. Hell, I've done it. And you just kinda have to go, "Oop. Wait. I take that thought back. We should totally take the new guy, because if nothing else, it'll be good for him to get over that 'timidness' all new players have." Or whatever may really apply.
And...It's tough. You know how much build and body you have... and you -have- to consider that in order to follow the rules appropriately... but you can't really think about how much build or body your buddy has... or how much that monster that just spawned has....
You just kinda have to live in the moment and suspend all of that pesky reality stuff.
But back to my point:
Build-schmild. Play a new character and get over it. Build isn't what's important, and I'm sick of people acting like it is. Yes, I understand it's a lot of work and effort to earn it. I understand you need it to flesh out a character appropriately, (as per things on a sheet... c/o's and stuff.) but if your whole hang-up is not wanting to swing twos or threes or about not having a buncha spells... or about having 10 or so body... or not having a buncha really cool over-powering magic stuff... well... I urge you to reconsider your focus, because I think you've lost sight a little bit. It's about getting to play. It's about a good day outside with some foam weapons playing fantastical creatures/characters and having a good time -- and if you need those other things to have that good time then I think you've lost sight of what Alliance is really about.
Use the opportunity for what it is... to try something new out. To play a class or race or concept that you haven't done. Use it as an excuse to build a really sweet rep or type of weapon you've always wanted to try.
...And who cares if you're a n00b and suck? Minnesota doesn't. Everyone gets involved. Everyone helps one another out. I'm not saying it's perfect. Don't get me wrong.... But it's still in the phase where it's the environment that fosters a good starting spot for people who are that "small" or just learning how to effectively use whatever it is they've got. It's kinda cool to be able to be at the same(ish) level as everyone else and be able to impart some knowledge onto eachother... Whether it's how to effectively work a shield line, or how to more effectively go on adventure mods (you know, let the thief sneak behind, let the fighters tank, and let the casters do their tossy-tossy thing) so that everyone gets back in one piece... I mean, how great would it be to have even more experiences players on that same level to help out with that? I think it's easier to take the advice from a person who's "just a grunt" like you are than it is some huge, high-and-mighty toon who really has no reason to even look at the likes of you (and usually doesn't anyhow so you get no real help anyway). Not to mention... sometimes the n00bs have some interesting ideas. They still can think outside of the box, because it's not a "box" to them. They haven't seen or realized all of the limits yet. (Which, admittedly can be both good and bad.)
I urge you to leave your comfort zone. To stop living the life of build and muck it out with the rest of us. The plot is looking to be pretty fun and interesting thus far, and some of the things Dave is doing with his game (like those C/O 'rumor' sheets -- friggin' AMAZING!) are superb.
...I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.
/endtwocentsmoment
I think it's slightly a disservice to the spirit of the game itself to be so attached to the build on your character that you only want to play in games where you can have all of your cookies. I mean, I think we all have some "character attachment" issues... but I'm glad to say that mine stems from a love of the person I've created, not the points I've put onto her.
I guess maybe it's a carry-over from playing in Chicago games, or perhaps just LARPing in general (which I do a lot of beyond Alliance, admittedly) where people can't just seem to get off of the "I love my huge XP/build character" horse. I've seen games where low-XP/build characters do some amazing things... and frankly, I'd love to see more of it. It fosters a kind of IG/OOG mentality that removes the focus from build and puts it on deeds -- because build isn't something that you should consider IG and I think we all are pretty guilty of doing that in one place or another.
You know you have. Be honest. I've seen it. Hell, I've done it. And you just kinda have to go, "Oop. Wait. I take that thought back. We should totally take the new guy, because if nothing else, it'll be good for him to get over that 'timidness' all new players have." Or whatever may really apply.
And...It's tough. You know how much build and body you have... and you -have- to consider that in order to follow the rules appropriately... but you can't really think about how much build or body your buddy has... or how much that monster that just spawned has....
You just kinda have to live in the moment and suspend all of that pesky reality stuff.
But back to my point:
Build-schmild. Play a new character and get over it. Build isn't what's important, and I'm sick of people acting like it is. Yes, I understand it's a lot of work and effort to earn it. I understand you need it to flesh out a character appropriately, (as per things on a sheet... c/o's and stuff.) but if your whole hang-up is not wanting to swing twos or threes or about not having a buncha spells... or about having 10 or so body... or not having a buncha really cool over-powering magic stuff... well... I urge you to reconsider your focus, because I think you've lost sight a little bit. It's about getting to play. It's about a good day outside with some foam weapons playing fantastical creatures/characters and having a good time -- and if you need those other things to have that good time then I think you've lost sight of what Alliance is really about.
Use the opportunity for what it is... to try something new out. To play a class or race or concept that you haven't done. Use it as an excuse to build a really sweet rep or type of weapon you've always wanted to try.
...And who cares if you're a n00b and suck? Minnesota doesn't. Everyone gets involved. Everyone helps one another out. I'm not saying it's perfect. Don't get me wrong.... But it's still in the phase where it's the environment that fosters a good starting spot for people who are that "small" or just learning how to effectively use whatever it is they've got. It's kinda cool to be able to be at the same(ish) level as everyone else and be able to impart some knowledge onto eachother... Whether it's how to effectively work a shield line, or how to more effectively go on adventure mods (you know, let the thief sneak behind, let the fighters tank, and let the casters do their tossy-tossy thing) so that everyone gets back in one piece... I mean, how great would it be to have even more experiences players on that same level to help out with that? I think it's easier to take the advice from a person who's "just a grunt" like you are than it is some huge, high-and-mighty toon who really has no reason to even look at the likes of you (and usually doesn't anyhow so you get no real help anyway). Not to mention... sometimes the n00bs have some interesting ideas. They still can think outside of the box, because it's not a "box" to them. They haven't seen or realized all of the limits yet. (Which, admittedly can be both good and bad.)
I urge you to leave your comfort zone. To stop living the life of build and muck it out with the rest of us. The plot is looking to be pretty fun and interesting thus far, and some of the things Dave is doing with his game (like those C/O 'rumor' sheets -- friggin' AMAZING!) are superb.
...I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.
/endtwocentsmoment
AllianceCHI
Baron
Elysia said:Just as a slight note on that whole "105 build is too low" thing...
I think it's slightly a disservice to the spirit of the game itself to be so attached to the build on your character that you only want to play in games where you can have all of your cookies. I mean, I think we all have some "character attachment" issues... but I'm glad to say that mine stems from a love of the person I've created, not the points I've put onto her.
I guess maybe it's a carry-over from playing in Chicago games, or perhaps just LARPing in general (which I do a lot of beyond Alliance, admittedly) where people can't just seem to get off of the "I love my huge XP/build character" horse. I've seen games where low-XP/build characters do some amazing things... and frankly, I'd love to see more of it. It fosters a kind of IG/OOG mentality that removes the focus from build and puts it on deeds -- because build isn't something that you should consider IG and I think we all are pretty guilty of doing that in one place or another.
You know you have. Be honest. I've seen it. Hell, I've done it. And you just kinda have to go, "Oop. Wait. I take that thought back. We should totally take the new guy, because if nothing else, it'll be good for him to get over that 'timidness' all new players have." Or whatever may really apply.
And...It's tough. You know how much build and body you have... and you -have- to consider that in order to follow the rules appropriately... but you can't really think about how much build or body your buddy has... or how much that monster that just spawned has....
You just kinda have to live in the moment and suspend all of that pesky reality stuff.
But back to my point:
Build-schmild. Play a new character and get over it. Build isn't what's important, and I'm sick of people acting like it is. Yes, I understand it's a lot of work and effort to earn it. I understand you need it to flesh out a character appropriately, (as per things on a sheet... c/o's and stuff.) but if your whole hang-up is not wanting to swing twos or threes or about not having a buncha spells... or about having 10 or so body... or not having a buncha really cool over-powering magic stuff... well... I urge you to reconsider your focus, because I think you've lost sight a little bit. It's about getting to play. It's about a good day outside with some foam weapons playing fantastical creatures/characters and having a good time -- and if you need those other things to have that good time then I think you've lost sight of what Alliance is really about.
Use the opportunity for what it is... to try something new out. To play a class or race or concept that you haven't done. Use it as an excuse to build a really sweet rep or type of weapon you've always wanted to try.
...And who cares if you're a n00b and suck? Minnesota doesn't. Everyone gets involved. Everyone helps one another out. I'm not saying it's perfect. Don't get me wrong.... But it's still in the phase where it's the environment that fosters a good starting spot for people who are that "small" or just learning how to effectively use whatever it is they've got. It's kinda cool to be able to be at the same(ish) level as everyone else and be able to impart some knowledge onto eachother... Whether it's how to effectively work a shield line, or how to more effectively go on adventure mods (you know, let the thief sneak behind, let the fighters tank, and let the casters do their tossy-tossy thing) so that everyone gets back in one piece... I mean, how great would it be to have even more experiences players on that same level to help out with that? I think it's easier to take the advice from a person who's "just a grunt" like you are than it is some huge, high-and-mighty toon who really has no reason to even look at the likes of you (and usually doesn't anyhow so you get no real help anyway). Not to mention... sometimes the n00bs have some interesting ideas. They still can think outside of the box, because it's not a "box" to them. They haven't seen or realized all of the limits yet. (Which, admittedly can be both good and bad.)
I urge you to leave your comfort zone. To stop living the life of build and muck it out with the rest of us. The plot is looking to be pretty fun and interesting thus far, and some of the things Dave is doing with his game (like those C/O 'rumor' sheets -- friggin' AMAZING!) are superb.
...I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.
/endtwocentsmoment
Again... its not the build or MIs keeping me away... I'd love to come out at any build to play one of my PCs I just want to play one the three that I currently have a and none of em are within the cap...... I'd rewrite my primary at 1/2 the cap if I could and I know most of the people that are staying away feel the same.
I love my primary... I have a blast playin him and I'd have soooo much fun playing him at low level again... heck I could... not bring any mundane items other than my swords ( 2 normal short swords) and a few copper.... and still have a blast. I just get a choice of which event I play each month and I choose to play my primary cuz he's got a personallity that I enjoy... I wish I could do it with the friends ive made from MN and see my buddies from IA in the process. Your too close a chapter for me not to want to go... please!
so I guess my question is not build or Item related but rather a logistical one... why is MN not allowing characters over the cap to simply come in at the cap?1/2 the cap? Is it th scrolls/potion/and other normal items that could be brought out? what if we just said they didn't travel through the mists either? Is it a logistical issue? how can we make this work?
Paul
AllianceCHI
Baron
Sounds fair... I'll look into it since I've never seen this as a by-law. If it is then I'll rail against the powers that be for a while... if its not then Il prolly bug you at some point this yr.
Paul
Paul
Lost_Nation
Artisan
Seems to me that part of the point has been missed
A build cap and a "no rewrite/reduction" policy isn't just about characters that have more Build/IG skills/Magic items/gear. It's also about continuity. This is the reason you can't bounce between Alliance and International games. This is the reason you can't cut a character's build in half and call it good. There are things you can't unknow, things you can't undo. In a higher level game, or in under an alternate rules set you character's story is progressing at a certain rate under a certain set of rules, ultimately within its own "reality". To drastically alter that character breaks the continuity of your storyline and messes with the continuity of the story for any chapter that you'd visit with such a character.
I'm sure if we all think long and hard we can remember a few instances where this kind of thing has caused a problem with the story, and with the fun other players were having.
It's kind of a fact of Alliance gaming, travelling is fun but ultimately a chapter needs to be able to focus on it's home players. Visiting players are great, but often times the local players have more invested in the plot, and the oog logistics of any given chapter. Most days I like to travel, and most days I'm content to follow the rulings of the local marshalls, the local weapons construction conventions, and the various LCO effects that may exist. Part of travelling is being able to accept the foreign nature of unfamilar turf, and sometimes you have to take a back seat to the local folk who have graciously allowed you into their own little slice of alternate reality.
Ultimately when in Rome....
A build cap and a "no rewrite/reduction" policy isn't just about characters that have more Build/IG skills/Magic items/gear. It's also about continuity. This is the reason you can't bounce between Alliance and International games. This is the reason you can't cut a character's build in half and call it good. There are things you can't unknow, things you can't undo. In a higher level game, or in under an alternate rules set you character's story is progressing at a certain rate under a certain set of rules, ultimately within its own "reality". To drastically alter that character breaks the continuity of your storyline and messes with the continuity of the story for any chapter that you'd visit with such a character.
I'm sure if we all think long and hard we can remember a few instances where this kind of thing has caused a problem with the story, and with the fun other players were having.
It's kind of a fact of Alliance gaming, travelling is fun but ultimately a chapter needs to be able to focus on it's home players. Visiting players are great, but often times the local players have more invested in the plot, and the oog logistics of any given chapter. Most days I like to travel, and most days I'm content to follow the rulings of the local marshalls, the local weapons construction conventions, and the various LCO effects that may exist. Part of travelling is being able to accept the foreign nature of unfamilar turf, and sometimes you have to take a back seat to the local folk who have graciously allowed you into their own little slice of alternate reality.
Ultimately when in Rome....