Slain is the beast
- Thread starter squeegee
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AllianceCHI
Baron
Hey there Mr Strongbeard,
I'm not sure you should call folks having skepticism "lazy thinkin". In fact, skepticism is the exact opposite. Lazy would be beleiving a total stranger at his word about a cooky theory about being able to walk through the mists simply because he said it nicely. You ask for proof that it cant be done but in doing so offer no valid evidence that suggests you can. Now I'm willing to think that maybe, just maybe, you might be able to but I'll be skeptical of it as evidence until I see it happen.
Think about it, we havent seen it done, weve, some of us with colorfull and adventurers streaks have been to the "end of the world" and touched it right in the white part.... none of us stepped through but I'd bet most of us were inspired.
Besides, how do we know your not one of the drunks making up stories about being crossed over through the mists and other folks from faraway lands talking to them and prodding them for information???.... now thats just drunken hupshaw if ya ask me but we've all of us heard the story at least once, and McGregor, in his defense, prolly hears it way more often than the rest of us.
I'm just saying...
Fern Woods
I'm not sure you should call folks having skepticism "lazy thinkin". In fact, skepticism is the exact opposite. Lazy would be beleiving a total stranger at his word about a cooky theory about being able to walk through the mists simply because he said it nicely. You ask for proof that it cant be done but in doing so offer no valid evidence that suggests you can. Now I'm willing to think that maybe, just maybe, you might be able to but I'll be skeptical of it as evidence until I see it happen.
Think about it, we havent seen it done, weve, some of us with colorfull and adventurers streaks have been to the "end of the world" and touched it right in the white part.... none of us stepped through but I'd bet most of us were inspired.
Besides, how do we know your not one of the drunks making up stories about being crossed over through the mists and other folks from faraway lands talking to them and prodding them for information???.... now thats just drunken hupshaw if ya ask me but we've all of us heard the story at least once, and McGregor, in his defense, prolly hears it way more often than the rest of us.
I'm just saying...
Fern Woods
squeegee
Scholar
*HIC*
Here, here!!
Well said master fern. It would be the responsibility of this Tazoulti character to disprove such a commonly known fact. Everyone from childhood is taught that the mists surround us and cannot be crossed.
*HIC*
Some have even touched the wall of mist, what a strange feeling it is. Like an unyielding wall, standing, ever vigilant. *HIC*
- Jerahim frequenter of taverns
Here, here!!
Well said master fern. It would be the responsibility of this Tazoulti character to disprove such a commonly known fact. Everyone from childhood is taught that the mists surround us and cannot be crossed.
*HIC*
Some have even touched the wall of mist, what a strange feeling it is. Like an unyielding wall, standing, ever vigilant. *HIC*
- Jerahim frequenter of taverns
tazoulti
Scholar
Fern Woods, I am neither joking or imbibing in any strong drink, despite whatever insulting insinuations McGregor makes. And I did not state that all skepticism is lazy thinking, but rather, that Loka's argument was lazy thinking. You've cut to the heart of why I disputed that very argument, a complete lack of evidence - from my point of view. If a person see's a orc outside before entering a tavern and telling everyone else about it, what evidence do they give? Their merely relating their own experience.
That is all either my apprentice & I have done. And yet, the fact that it's currently outside of your experience is all that makes you doubt our words. That's like doubting someone who says they've seen the orc, simply because you've never seen one. What if you wanted to prove to yourself that the orc was out there and you went outside and the orc had already left? In such as situation, how do you propose that person who saw that orc go about proving it to you?
- Tazoulti Strongbeard
That is all either my apprentice & I have done. And yet, the fact that it's currently outside of your experience is all that makes you doubt our words. That's like doubting someone who says they've seen the orc, simply because you've never seen one. What if you wanted to prove to yourself that the orc was out there and you went outside and the orc had already left? In such as situation, how do you propose that person who saw that orc go about proving it to you?
- Tazoulti Strongbeard
AllianceCHI
Baron
Mr. Strongbeard,
Just call me Fern, your analogy isnt consistent with the situation your putting forward. beleivability is the main factor here.
An Orc outside the tavern, much as i would scare me and I'd rather not have to deal with it would be a bother thats known about in these parts and more common than most tavern keepers would like. Its also easily prooved or disprooved based on getting up and looking out a window to verify the claim.
If you think about it, your analogy doesnt work on another level, your trying to compare a small part of the world versus a veritably accepted law of existance. Would you take me at your word if I said I could walk on water? fly like a bird? Outdrink Jerahim? Of course not, because those are crazy concepts none of which work. Thats basicly what your asking us to beleive, sight unseen.
Fern Woods
Aprentice Vintner
Just call me Fern, your analogy isnt consistent with the situation your putting forward. beleivability is the main factor here.
An Orc outside the tavern, much as i would scare me and I'd rather not have to deal with it would be a bother thats known about in these parts and more common than most tavern keepers would like. Its also easily prooved or disprooved based on getting up and looking out a window to verify the claim.
If you think about it, your analogy doesnt work on another level, your trying to compare a small part of the world versus a veritably accepted law of existance. Would you take me at your word if I said I could walk on water? fly like a bird? Outdrink Jerahim? Of course not, because those are crazy concepts none of which work. Thats basicly what your asking us to beleive, sight unseen.
Fern Woods
Aprentice Vintner
AllianceCHI
Baron
Have you checked the Mists?... didnt think so.
Fern
Fern
tazoulti
Scholar
First, let me say, that *if* I were lazy I would not have wasted so much of my time this way. You will continue to believe in your "truth" and I will mine. That has been the point I have been making all along - If you will only believe in your own proofs, then all I can do is ask what proof you will accept, as I have already done.
I do not know why the mists cut off your lands, nor do I know why it is now allowing dreamscape communication such as this. I only know that the conditions have changed and I am sorry that you do not understand that. My only wish was to politely help in this matter and you have slapped my offer away with ridicule and insults. If your only interest is to be quarrelsome and insulting, then we are at an impasse.
Fare thee well,
- Tazoulti Strongbeard
I do not know why the mists cut off your lands, nor do I know why it is now allowing dreamscape communication such as this. I only know that the conditions have changed and I am sorry that you do not understand that. My only wish was to politely help in this matter and you have slapped my offer away with ridicule and insults. If your only interest is to be quarrelsome and insulting, then we are at an impasse.
Fare thee well,
- Tazoulti Strongbeard
Fern,
Some have attend'n to do, as you must, as I do. I am sure da other' could go, I ready no dat someting happen. Da omen has foretold it, we now wait. Send someone and get your proof.
-Hengin
Tazoulti,
Tell me, what do you seek by goin into da mist? And why return if only to go agai'? Da mist are of legends, hold'n back chaos an' fire. Tell me. You go in, den come ou', what could sen' you to da chaos 'n fire of your choosin'? If you speak da trut', den why speak such legends as normal days?
-Hengin
Some have attend'n to do, as you must, as I do. I am sure da other' could go, I ready no dat someting happen. Da omen has foretold it, we now wait. Send someone and get your proof.
-Hengin
Tazoulti,
Tell me, what do you seek by goin into da mist? And why return if only to go agai'? Da mist are of legends, hold'n back chaos an' fire. Tell me. You go in, den come ou', what could sen' you to da chaos 'n fire of your choosin'? If you speak da trut', den why speak such legends as normal days?
-Hengin
AllianceCHI
Baron
GoodMan Strongbeard,
I never said you were lazy. I dont think you are, heck your a blacksmith and a lazy blacksmith is a soon starved to death blacksmith so being that your alive I'll assume your a pretty able guy. The problem with your argument is the assumption of truth as the imutable truth of what you beleive and that your sheer belief has to be enough for us. Its not that I'm not willing to beleive you its that you havent presented any proof to your, I hope you can at least admit this, far fetched idea. What you have presented is your belief in this and your accounting of where your from. Thats not any sort of proof comming from a stranger.
Any smart person could tell you that you use the explanation that makes more sense and is easier to prove. Which does, That your wrong like most people think and beleive because we've all grown up knowing the wall couldnt be breached or that suddenly your walking about from another world and able to walk these mists?
Your growing insulted about this like you think im making fun of you. Trust me I'm not, ridicule would be much harder to parse out but a lot more peaked in your direction. I personally wouldnt call a debate a waste of time on any day of the week except payday and not if the topic is on fair wages but I'm getting beside the topic now.
In either case, truth is mutable, it does change from person to person based on personal logic and perception. You can change either but it takes more work than flogging the "truth" into peoples minds by means of insult and exasperation. If you can't see that then im even more inclined to beleive in other people's assertion that your either crazed or a riotly drunk village idiot.
Fern Wood
I never said you were lazy. I dont think you are, heck your a blacksmith and a lazy blacksmith is a soon starved to death blacksmith so being that your alive I'll assume your a pretty able guy. The problem with your argument is the assumption of truth as the imutable truth of what you beleive and that your sheer belief has to be enough for us. Its not that I'm not willing to beleive you its that you havent presented any proof to your, I hope you can at least admit this, far fetched idea. What you have presented is your belief in this and your accounting of where your from. Thats not any sort of proof comming from a stranger.
Any smart person could tell you that you use the explanation that makes more sense and is easier to prove. Which does, That your wrong like most people think and beleive because we've all grown up knowing the wall couldnt be breached or that suddenly your walking about from another world and able to walk these mists?
Your growing insulted about this like you think im making fun of you. Trust me I'm not, ridicule would be much harder to parse out but a lot more peaked in your direction. I personally wouldnt call a debate a waste of time on any day of the week except payday and not if the topic is on fair wages but I'm getting beside the topic now.
In either case, truth is mutable, it does change from person to person based on personal logic and perception. You can change either but it takes more work than flogging the "truth" into peoples minds by means of insult and exasperation. If you can't see that then im even more inclined to beleive in other people's assertion that your either crazed or a riotly drunk village idiot.
Fern Wood
Lurin
Duke
Whose that? Speak up miss...Addle? I can't quite catch your name.
The mist creatures have long been known to maintain the balance of the world, and the mists it was forged from. Obviously whenever one of these purely noble creatures is interuppted in his work, an unbalance is introduced to the world. Nobody knows just what manner of beasts and creatures might appear without the protection this noble lion beast so callously slain. Personally I think that this so called leader of men Garren should be tried as a war criminal, or perhaps for flagarent disregard of common decentcy.
Whatever comes about will no doubt cause far more harm, pain, and suffering then a creature traveling quitely through the lands, never truely harming anyone!
-Merrick
The mist creatures have long been known to maintain the balance of the world, and the mists it was forged from. Obviously whenever one of these purely noble creatures is interuppted in his work, an unbalance is introduced to the world. Nobody knows just what manner of beasts and creatures might appear without the protection this noble lion beast so callously slain. Personally I think that this so called leader of men Garren should be tried as a war criminal, or perhaps for flagarent disregard of common decentcy.
Whatever comes about will no doubt cause far more harm, pain, and suffering then a creature traveling quitely through the lands, never truely harming anyone!
-Merrick
Dragonblade
Scout
it would appear from the replies that my question about what the mist beast looked like was misunderstood. not having seen one myself during my travels with Tazoulti i was curious what it looked like. As for you sergent garren your description of the beast is helpful but WHY would you insult a dwarf like that!... are you trying to provoke a fight?!
Iganeous Ironforge
Iganeous Ironforge
tazoulti
Scholar
Hengin,
The reason I go through the mists is because as a merchant, going back and forth to different lands is beneficial for both business & trade purposes. Plus there is the added benefit of new experiences & adventure, which I'm sure you would understand. As for it being spoke about in your legends that would be a good indication of a previous time when travel by mists was possible. But for whatever reason that I do not know, must have become however temporarily prohibited in your past.
Does that answer your question, Hengin?
Fern,
Let me see if I understand your logic correctly - your saying that because you consider what my friends & I have experienced as being far fetched, that is a proof of what our own experience are telling us is incorrect. That's very interesting considering, that you went on to state, and I quote, "Thats not any sort of proof comming from a stranger.", which seems to contradict your proof that we are incorrect. So if I understand correctly, what your saying is, our experience should have less value than yours, but that we should not rely on proofs coming from strangers such as yourself.
Well, if that's the case, then I'm not so surprised by such attempts at insults stating that I'm "either crazed or a riotly drunk village idiot.". I tend to believe that whenever an individual resorts to such insults, their doing so out of fear. So please understand that as I ask - why do you fear me?
- Tazoulti Strongbeard
The reason I go through the mists is because as a merchant, going back and forth to different lands is beneficial for both business & trade purposes. Plus there is the added benefit of new experiences & adventure, which I'm sure you would understand. As for it being spoke about in your legends that would be a good indication of a previous time when travel by mists was possible. But for whatever reason that I do not know, must have become however temporarily prohibited in your past.
Does that answer your question, Hengin?
Fern,
Let me see if I understand your logic correctly - your saying that because you consider what my friends & I have experienced as being far fetched, that is a proof of what our own experience are telling us is incorrect. That's very interesting considering, that you went on to state, and I quote, "Thats not any sort of proof comming from a stranger.", which seems to contradict your proof that we are incorrect. So if I understand correctly, what your saying is, our experience should have less value than yours, but that we should not rely on proofs coming from strangers such as yourself.
Well, if that's the case, then I'm not so surprised by such attempts at insults stating that I'm "either crazed or a riotly drunk village idiot.". I tend to believe that whenever an individual resorts to such insults, their doing so out of fear. So please understand that as I ask - why do you fear me?
- Tazoulti Strongbeard
AllianceCHI
Baron
Touchy aint ya? 
No worries big guy, I aint afraid of you beating me up over a lost debate.
Listen, if you wanna take it like that go aheah, but go back and reread those statements I made and then try not to miss the fact that I purposefully avoided insulting you directly. If I were going to call you an idiot, blowhard, schoolboy bully with a bad case of sideburn envy, then yeah I'd prolly do it, but I wouldnt because thats rude.
Fact is, your not listening to what im saying, worse you've misquoted at least one statement out of each attempt ive made at gaining some sort of consensus, you havent made any new arguments just spun words round and round and taken offense at each argument i've made. The sad part is, I'm one of the only people that prolly would beleive you, heck, I'm on my way to the mist wall now to see if there is anything up here.
Fern Woods
No worries big guy, I aint afraid of you beating me up over a lost debate.
Listen, if you wanna take it like that go aheah, but go back and reread those statements I made and then try not to miss the fact that I purposefully avoided insulting you directly. If I were going to call you an idiot, blowhard, schoolboy bully with a bad case of sideburn envy, then yeah I'd prolly do it, but I wouldnt because thats rude.
Fact is, your not listening to what im saying, worse you've misquoted at least one statement out of each attempt ive made at gaining some sort of consensus, you havent made any new arguments just spun words round and round and taken offense at each argument i've made. The sad part is, I'm one of the only people that prolly would beleive you, heck, I'm on my way to the mist wall now to see if there is anything up here.
Fern Woods
tazoulti
Scholar
Fern Woods,
Calling someone who is being amicable touchy? Now there's a laugh, heh! Then you immediately follow that up by saying your not afraid of me beating you up. Why if I could beat up someone through the mists, you would be the least of my concerns, young fellow. I would be making myself busy annoying certain necromancers if that were the case, Hah!
You say I should go back and re-read your statements and try not to miss your purposefully avoiding insult? Hmpf! I know as well as you probably do that there are many ways someone can be intentionally rude. And you follow that up by giving examples of how you would go about insulting someone all while claiming your not being insulting. As one great dwarf once said it: "Fool me once - shame on you, fool me twice then shame on me!". Perhaps you should look back at mine, young fellow, and notice that I've asked more than once what kind of proof you wanted me to present in those 'spun words' as you call them.
And what will you do when I finally do (after I finish packing up here) come and meet you with my friends? If I'm to take the words of the many other individuals whom I've responded to here previously, should I expect more ill? As I've previously said to others in your lands, I'm willing travel to your lands and investigate the possibility of establishing a new permanent base of operations for my smithy and give you folks the benefit of the doubt. Will you do the same?
- Tazoulti Strongbeard
Calling someone who is being amicable touchy? Now there's a laugh, heh! Then you immediately follow that up by saying your not afraid of me beating you up. Why if I could beat up someone through the mists, you would be the least of my concerns, young fellow. I would be making myself busy annoying certain necromancers if that were the case, Hah!
You say I should go back and re-read your statements and try not to miss your purposefully avoiding insult? Hmpf! I know as well as you probably do that there are many ways someone can be intentionally rude. And you follow that up by giving examples of how you would go about insulting someone all while claiming your not being insulting. As one great dwarf once said it: "Fool me once - shame on you, fool me twice then shame on me!". Perhaps you should look back at mine, young fellow, and notice that I've asked more than once what kind of proof you wanted me to present in those 'spun words' as you call them.
And what will you do when I finally do (after I finish packing up here) come and meet you with my friends? If I'm to take the words of the many other individuals whom I've responded to here previously, should I expect more ill? As I've previously said to others in your lands, I'm willing travel to your lands and investigate the possibility of establishing a new permanent base of operations for my smithy and give you folks the benefit of the doubt. Will you do the same?
- Tazoulti Strongbeard
AllianceCHI
Baron
Master Strongbeard,
I'm all for a new smithy in these lands what with the need for more and more daggers going southward we need all the skilled craftsman we can get in these parts.
About your being from another land, your asking me how to proove it to you, I've been trying to get you to answer me one question.... What would convince you that a law of nature has been changed? Would you want to see it? would you beleive a well known scholar? Would you trust a friend if he told you he or she experienced it?
I've been trying to give you a bit of perspective from our end and explain why my friends and I are finding it hard to beleive that you or anyone else might be from beyond the wall because the wall to us isnt something thats crossed. I'm struggling to comprehend that its even possible... I've lived all my life "knowing" its not and now your telling me that it is. I'm not dismissing your claim, I'm just saying its a big one to swallow.
Fern Woods
Aprentice Vintner
I'm all for a new smithy in these lands what with the need for more and more daggers going southward we need all the skilled craftsman we can get in these parts.
About your being from another land, your asking me how to proove it to you, I've been trying to get you to answer me one question.... What would convince you that a law of nature has been changed? Would you want to see it? would you beleive a well known scholar? Would you trust a friend if he told you he or she experienced it?
I've been trying to give you a bit of perspective from our end and explain why my friends and I are finding it hard to beleive that you or anyone else might be from beyond the wall because the wall to us isnt something thats crossed. I'm struggling to comprehend that its even possible... I've lived all my life "knowing" its not and now your telling me that it is. I'm not dismissing your claim, I'm just saying its a big one to swallow.
Fern Woods
Aprentice Vintner
PoeticMisfit
Artisan
It does so amuse me how you would call this creature of the mist a coward because it would not fight you. Did you ever stop to think maybe this creature you took so much joy in slaying was really protecting you, your families and your lands? Perhaps to this beast you were as his children. If your children were to attack you would you not choose to retreat? Or would you attack them and hurt the ones you have dedicated your life to protect? Perhaps the mists were this creatures way of protecting you.
You say that nothing exists beyond the mist. Yet, after you "Heroicallly" slain this beast who showed you no agression you hear apon this dreamscape new voices. It is true that beyond your mists there is civilization, there are people. I can assure you of this. I have traveled many places I know they do exist.
Did you think the it might be possible that in slaying this beast you have lifted the protection it gave you. Perhaps now what was such an impenetrable barrier is now little more than smoke and mirrors. If you are hearing this then it must infact mean communications from outside of your mists are finding their way in. Perhaps in slaying this "Beast" you have permitted us "outsiders" to travel to your lands.
You say you need proof that this is so...What proof will suffice for you? When you see strangers wandering through your lands? What then will you say? Those of us who are speaking to you only wish to help you. And we can help you. If our messages can get through this mist we must as well surmise that we as well will be able to travel through.
If this is the case it is unknown to anyone what else may have traveled through these mists. We are more than willing and very capable to help you in any matters that may arise. Perhaps you will choose to mock me now for my words. But when then time comes I and I would assume many others will place our skills at your disposal.
For now you celebrate the death of this "beast" but I think you should be mourning. Mourn the death of your protector. You have my most sincere sympathy. Until we finally meet be well.
Aeneaus Solrade
You say that nothing exists beyond the mist. Yet, after you "Heroicallly" slain this beast who showed you no agression you hear apon this dreamscape new voices. It is true that beyond your mists there is civilization, there are people. I can assure you of this. I have traveled many places I know they do exist.
Did you think the it might be possible that in slaying this beast you have lifted the protection it gave you. Perhaps now what was such an impenetrable barrier is now little more than smoke and mirrors. If you are hearing this then it must infact mean communications from outside of your mists are finding their way in. Perhaps in slaying this "Beast" you have permitted us "outsiders" to travel to your lands.
You say you need proof that this is so...What proof will suffice for you? When you see strangers wandering through your lands? What then will you say? Those of us who are speaking to you only wish to help you. And we can help you. If our messages can get through this mist we must as well surmise that we as well will be able to travel through.
If this is the case it is unknown to anyone what else may have traveled through these mists. We are more than willing and very capable to help you in any matters that may arise. Perhaps you will choose to mock me now for my words. But when then time comes I and I would assume many others will place our skills at your disposal.
For now you celebrate the death of this "beast" but I think you should be mourning. Mourn the death of your protector. You have my most sincere sympathy. Until we finally meet be well.
Aeneaus Solrade