((sound of Natalia screaming))

....you are a healer...who is going to refuse to heal to the best that you can....this is a sad day...you will be letting "them" win..."they" have now taken you out without useing anything...you are worried that "they" with corupt you with a simple spell...why start screaming about it now...it has always been this way...now its easier for us to stop it as well...you fear a simple spell or elixar...which other can use to bring you back to the Light before you are "corupted"

You see someone get Charmed or Dominated...Awaken them...Charm them..Dominate them...this will bring them back to their senses...if you and others are quick to act, no damage will be done...

or you can choose not to fight against the Darkness and let it destroy more of the Light....

-Cyric Bane
 
Ket said:
Natalia,

Sizter, I understand how this can make your blood boil. However, if zhose of us who heal stop travelling and helping or only memeorize non healings spells den our enemies win. Zhere are many way to prevent worzt case scenario. Erst, we can make sure all helaer have plenty of poison sheild, I vill make sure you hafe plenty of potion shield potion to carry vit you. If you still vorry take vhat healing you are villing to take if any and ve will make sure you fully supplied vhit mass qvantitites of healing potions.

Dmitri
Click to expand...

It is as he say, my sister. For my part, I memorize every day a command for pushing away this domination, if it ever fall on you. But you do more of the damage by not healing the ones who fall.
 
Air Raksa said:
Friends

The Undead and Vampires have always had this capability. It is nothing new that our enemies will try to corrupt our minds and spirits. Many of our enemies have used this tactic in the past, sometimes with success.

Awaken spells and potions, the racial ability to break command, high magic defenses and certain magic items are helpful against these foes. Likewise Purifies and Dispel Magics are effective. We have cut down our own so that they can not finish a charmed necromantic verbal.

Legally speaking it is not a crime to cast necromancy in a magically or alchemically compelled manner. The creature who is guilty is the one using these foul abilities. They will pay dearly for using this evil power. Nothing that comes of it is beautiful or lasting. I understand that some adventurers may wish to remain "pure" for the entirety of their careers, however sometimes this is not a realistic goal. If you intend on fighting vampires, will o wisps and dark fey: you will sometimes earn their ire. People who are on the "front-lines" are most at risk and thereby must rely on nearby shield-mates to come to their aid in the circumstance that they are made to do something against their will (like cast necromancy, murder a citizen, steal from friends, break the code of chivalry, etc).

I do not say these things to belittle anyone or make a joke of the situation. In all seriousness: to some there are fates worse than death. Good people have fallen along this road. It is best to remain calm, learn from history and use tactics to counter this evil. I do not believe that this makes it unwise to memorize healing magics. It has always been a serious responsibility, with terrifying dangers associated with it. Earth magic is more than useful, it is a necessity to the survival of the civilized peoples of Fortannis.

Natalia

You have stood by us, through countless battles against horrors. You are my friend and I will respect you no matter what you decide. You are wise and truly powerful. The deepest ethical commitment is required to practice Earth Magic, I have never doubted you.

"Rock of Trellheim"
-Sir Ignatious Vex
Click to expand...

Sir Ignatious,
I have a small problem with what you have stated. Perhaps its from lack of information but I know first hand that a gypsy known as Sarth "the verse" Elnoray whom was a full flegdged and devoted healer, whom was charged and convicted of Necromancy in Ashbury (Sir Eros was whom was magistrate in this case) Many of us saw him getting effected by Berserk Gasses from the enemy prior to him attacking us. If what you say is true then a grave injustice was done on that day to an innocent. He took his death nobly, and unjustly so per your words. How can we rectify this?

Sir Symerille
 
Sir Symerille

I will try to speak on the matter, but remember I was not present. I would suggest bringing any real grievance to the Paladins, or simply by contacting concerned parties privately. Perhaps there was circumstances that warranted such a punishment. To my knowledge being berserk does not cause one to cast necromancy. Unarmed casters simply flail about and make noise. I have never known Berserk to compel one to go against their nature and use necromancy. We will agree that the magical and alchemical nature of Berserk has waxed and waned the same as the nature of Dominate is now experiencing.

It is not impossible to simply make a mistake and cast necromancy. As horrible as that sounds, it is true. I imagine that some people hear spell verbals and unwittingly repeat what they heard in the cacophony of battle as their mind is in a dozen different places. I imagine that some people were simply instructed poorly by teachers who were too busy to really explain things. In their spirit there is no darkness what-so-ever to be found. The commitment of the Earth Caster is truly a perilous one.

The law of our Sovereign demands the execution of Necromancers. The punishment is meant to truly discourage the act of evil. Even mistakes and tiny slip-ups have real consequences.

"Rock of Trellheim"
Sir Ignatious
 
(( voice is heard as a scratchy whisper))

Cozin,

I too 'ave been used against my vill to aid in zee scum zat is undead. Not so recently or az frequently az you. I understand zee dilema ov allowing zee beautiful, warm power of zee earth to turn you into zee wepon you spent your life learning to fight against. Do vat iz best for you and ze child. I love you very much.

IIt iz not letting "zem" win iif my cozin desides not to call on zee Earth. How can you justify uzing zee gift in her az a vepon against zee very lives she 'az dedicated herself to healing. Vee all battle ourselves at times. Let 'er figure zis one out 'erself. It is best to support someone with such 'eart and strenght, in vatever desision she makes.

Natalia, I 'ave looked up to you az my older cozin, as my mentore, and my muse. I know you are strong, beautiful, and resiliant. You VILL make it thru zis.

I vill alvays be zee echo to your song, for I believe in vat you stand for.
Your Rose in zee Snow.
 
Sir Ignatious,
I have a small problem with what you have stated. Perhaps its from lack of information but I know first hand that a gypsy known as Sarth "the verse" Elnoray whom was a full flegdged and devoted healer, whom was charged and convicted of Necromancy in Ashbury (Sir Eros was whom was magistrate in this case) Many of us saw him getting effected by Berserk Gasses from the enemy prior to him attacking us. If what you say is true then a grave injustice was done on that day to an innocent. He took his death nobly, and unjustly so per your words. How can we rectify this?

Sir Symerille
Click to expand...


WOW, you mean to tell me Sir Eros charged, convicted, and carrier out a death sentence to someone that didn't deserve it??? What shocking news...really. At least someone didn't say he did it over half a decade ago with no witnesses or proof and sentence him again.
 
Berserk has been through a lot every time the magic fluxes, but in all the changes I've seen, I have never seen a case where it MAKES you cast necromancy. What it DID do was remove self control. So if someone casts necromancy while berserked it generally means you'd cast it if you thought nobody was watching.

Thankfully for the time being berserk renders casters pretty much senseless so it's not likely to come up again in the near future.
 
I also feel compelled to say something.

Please stop taking every opportunity you can to throw comments or slandering remarks to the Nobility of these lands. Whats done is done, we get it. Black Forrest and some of its associates think they were treated unfair, EVERYONE and their unborn child has heard it already. I considered some of the members of Black Forrest close friends, I still consider some as close as brothers. But the constant whining, and smart *** shots at the People of Icenia is getting worn out. Move on... The slander is tiresome.

As for you Natalia, I am sorry for what has happened to you. And I know you not need here my words of encouragement, or for me to sing my "fight on, fight through it" song. You are strong willed, and I hope you can find joy and peace after what has happened to you. Know I am grateful for all that you have done, as well as im sure many others are. You were, are, and always will be a true asset to the extinguishing of the Evil that threatens these lands. I long to see you again, and I hope in time I shall see you as you were ( As well as hopefully play one more great game of Romani twister /chuckles )

You will be missed.

Squire, Commander Ithica

"Follow me if I Advance, Kill me if I Retreat, Avenge me If I die"
 
Air Raksa said:
Goodman Luigie

I feel compelled to remind you that Sir Eros has been lax lately with actually carrying out sentences.

-Sir Ignatious
Click to expand...


Sir Iggy,

Forgive me but as far as I can remember in my 15+ years as an adventurer since Old Ashbury, I have never seen Eros actually carry out one of his sentences. He always has someone else do it for him. As a great man once said “The man who passes the sentence, should swing the sword”

Ithica said:
I also feel compelled to say something.

Please stop taking every opportunity you can to throw comments or slandering remarks to the Nobility of these lands. Whats done is done, we get it. Black Forrest and some of its associates think they were treated unfair, EVERYONE and their unborn child has heard it already. I considered some of the members of Black Forrest close friends, I still consider some as close as brothers. But the constant whining, and smart *** shots at the People of Icenia is getting worn out. Move on... The slander is tiresome.

Squire, Commander Ithica

"Follow me if I Advance, Kill me if I Retreat, Avenge me If I die"
Click to expand...

And Squire Ithica, we have moved on I assure you. You will not be seeing Black Forest in Fairdale anymore, or anywhere the His Grace Duke Frost or Eros has jurisdiction over. We have moved on to other lands, and hopefully we will see you and our other friends soon under much better circumstances. Sorry if you find my remarks tiresome, but every now and again you need to remind the people of things that could very easily happen to them. Apparently all it takes is for someone to whisper some bad things about you, point a finger and say you are a necromancer, and its “off with his head”!! Really??? Yea…really.

Also, on a different note…to whoever sent those 2 assassins after me a few months ago, nice try but your going to have to do a lot better then that. Whoever you are, why don’t you man up and confront me to my face instead of sending people with little threatening notes…

Stormlord Luigie
Elemental Hunter
BFFL
 
Ezri Wrote:
by Ezri » Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:48 pm

Berserk has been through a lot every time the magic fluxes, but in all the changes I've seen, I have never seen a case where it MAKES you cast necromancy. What it DID do was remove self control. So if someone casts necromancy while berserked it generally means you'd cast it if you thought nobody was watching.

Thankfully for the time being berserk renders casters pretty much senseless so it's not likely to come up again in the near future.


_____________________________________________________________________________

My issue is that per the following words from Sir Ignatious:
Legally speaking it is not a crime to cast necromancy in a magically or alchemically compelled manner. The creature who is guilty is the one using these foul abilities.

There was no mention of "except" this substance or that substance, or this magic or that magic. To my knowledge he was under the effects of an alchemical substance. Does it matter which it was that caused him to cast necromancy? Isnt that splitting Hairs?

Sir Sym
 
I tink I might be able to elaborate vhat Sir Sym's point seem to be. Correct me if I wrong Sym. Berzerk take avay free vill of perzon under effect, zhey no longer control vhat zhey do or who zhey attack. A berzerk perzon no charged vith assualt of attacking anyvone while under effect zince zhey not in control and can no stop zelves from attacking citizens. Previouzly vone could cazt vhile bezerk yet vhen zhis happen vone vould be culpable for necromancy but no culpable for assualt. Now, if vone dominated vone alzo looze free vill and if ordered to use necromancy zhey are not guilty, nor vould zhey be guilty of assualt under a dominate. I think crux of vhat Sym iz azking is why is there a line for vhat vone could be guilty for under berzerk vhen zhere is line for dominate. Zhat is vhere I tink he is azking about zhe hair split.

I vould admit it vould not be easy decision to make. I can see both side. Vone hand under dominate you told to do zomething and are helpless and muzt do it even though you are avare of vhat you are doing. On ozer hand under bezerk vone is not in right mind and have no control at all over actions and essentially rational thought gone and blind rage take over so brain no longer control body. Furzer, under bezerk vone can no decide vhat zhey vill do or who zhey attack. I admit it tough legal distinction to make decision on and do not envy any who vould have to make it. As for vhat berzerk do to person vhen zhis happen I can no say zince like Sqvire Erzi I did not travel at zhat time.


Sym, is zhat fair expansion of point I tink you try to make?

Don Dmitri Abdoujaparov Draken
 
Natalia,

I am very sorry that you have to bear this burden. Trust me when I say I understand your rage. My humble recommendation to you would be to either not memorize healing spells or to acquire enough items to make it unlikely you would ever be taken control of. There are many ways to heal and to protect. Perhaps it is your fate now to explore those paths.

Sun-Li Yin (Michiko)
 
My dreaming friends. Please allow me to introduce you to some very flawed logic. Berserk makes casters lose control. How does that lead to the conclusion "they would have done it if no one was watching"? What we have here is a conclusion that does not follow. I don't lose all self control when I am alone the way I do when I am berserked, do I? Sleeping alone would become even less desirable than it is now if that were the case.

Also, please remember that what you have seen may or may not be meaningful evidence. I have seen 9 hoblings cast necromancy while berserked and 2 hoblings cast necromancy while charmed. I have seen 1 hobling cast necromancy while both berserked and charmed. Of those 12 hoblings, I have never seen any of them cast necromancy when not charmed or berserked. What does this prove?

May your mattress be stuffed with gems,
Moon Silvertongue

Ezri said:
Berserk has been through a lot every time the magic fluxes, but in all the changes I've seen, I have never seen a case where it MAKES you cast necromancy. What it DID do was remove self control. So if someone casts necromancy while berserked it generally means you'd cast it if you thought nobody was watching.

Thankfully for the time being berserk renders casters pretty much senseless so it's not likely to come up again in the near future.
Click to expand...
 
All your observations prove is that you've never caught them casting it. In fact you further proved my point with your argument:

Dominate has been proven to actually FORCE a person to cast it against their will (they can be ordered to do so under its influence and are unable to resist). I see no evidence proving that berserk forces one to do anything other than attack with no reservations.

If you told me that every single earth caster you had ever seen berserked had cast necromancy I might be inclined to believe that they were forced into it. However some people cast necromancy while under its influence and others don't - which leads me to believe it has nothing to do with the berserk effect and everything to do with the person.
 
So is the law flawed?
Does this mean that "sometimes" while under alchemical and magical effects and you cast necromancy you are still responsible for your actions?

I am deeply concerned as to how far this can be interpreted..
If while berzerked a person resurrects are we holding a trial for murder?
I haven't seen this .... And yet I know it has happenned.

What's the difference?

Sir Sym
 
The difference is that it's obvious that when berserked you cannot help but attack people, and cannot differentiate friend from foe. However it's never been proven that being berserked forces one to cast necromancy, as plenty of earth casters have been berserked in the past and not cast it. Why would some manage to keep that level of restraint and others not?

Fortunately I have never been berserked, and even more fortunately, Berserk seems to have changed with this last shift to render casters all but useless, so as I said earlier, let us hope this argument does not have to happen again.
 
Actually my observations prove nothing, and, of course, your observations prove the same. Your belief that the necromancy in question had nothing to do with berserk and everything to do with the person seems to be based on your meaningless observations. In fact, for several years every earth caster I saw berserked cast necromancy while berserked. How is that observation meaningful?

Where is your proof that dominate now forces a caster to use necromancy while berserk did not in the days when casters always used their most powerful spells when berserked? Although you say "proven," so far I see only logical fallacies.

I think it's time you backed off the claim that "if someone casts necromancy while berserked it generally means you'd cast it if you thought nobody was watching." Is what you do when berserked the same as what you do when no one is watching?

May your pillow be solid gold,
Moon Silvertongue


Ezri said:
All your observations prove is that you've never caught them casting it. In fact you further proved my point with your argument:

Dominate has been proven to actually FORCE a person to cast it against their will (they can be ordered to do so under its influence and are unable to resist). I see no evidence proving that berserk forces one to do anything other than attack with no reservations.

If you told me that every single earth caster you had ever seen berserked had cast necromancy I might be inclined to believe that they were forced into it. However some people cast necromancy while under its influence and others don't - which leads me to believe it has nothing to do with the berserk effect and everything to do with the person.
Click to expand...
 
Goodman Silvertongue

I really hope for the sake of your clientele that you are more eloquent during their defense. If not, you should for their sake advertise that your strategy is to be hostile and alienate your listeners. Take it as free advice from a fellow Barrister, this attitude has never amounted to a positive outcome in legal matters, and you may find that your customers seek other advocates who actually possess a Silvertongue.

Whatever happened in the far past is no longer relevant to this matter. Just like "I was intoxicated" is not and has never been a legal defense in the case of casting necromancy, so too is it with Berserk. Most alchemical effects thankfully do not force a victim to use necromancy. Enslavement and now Dominate apparently are the two main culprits.

I foresee our Mystic Wood Elven brethren renewing their attempts to make Dominate an illegal substance. Given that now it may be so heinously misused, I would tend to agree that some effort must be made to control it.

Sir Symerille

What are the laws in your Kingdom? Surely necromancers find themselves on the sharp end of a Magistrates blade in Arandin. Is justice meted out any differently across the mists? Is your concern for both of our lands?

"Rock of Trellheim"
Sir Ignatious Skippio Vex
 
I believe an undead ordering one to cast necromancy in order to heal them while under its effects qualifies as being "forced." Likewise nobody has argued against the fact that being vampire charmed or enslaved and being ordered to do so also qualifies as "forced." Would you disagree there?

With berserk there are no orders given. No direct instruction of what the person who is no longer in control of themselves must do. They simply fight using (and these are your words) "their most powerful spells." If a person considers necromancy their most powerful spells, then what are they?
 
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