The 16% Question

Octaine

Artisan
Last I checked, you can silence me all you want but I will still swing my 30 magic on you ( go profs )
 

jpariury

Duke
Gilwing said:
Silence is one I can think of.
At best, I think that's a very minor point. You can use most Skill Stores, Damage Auras, Banes, Cloaks, Arcane Armor, Protection Aura, etc. while Silenced. Activates are equivalent to Spells and both are boned by Silence, so the only other skills that trump magic items are the high magic ones: Elemental Delivery, Magic Delivery, and Healer's Resolve. There are substantially more effects that outright remove skill use without removing magic item use, so I don't know that hanging the discussion of whether or not rewarding fulltime NPCs with extra xp because someone might eventually buy a few more profs or backstabs is enough to quite turn the tide.
 

evi1r0n

Baron
phedre said:
You could make it that specific. You could also just give chapters the option to take "Staff" items but not "LCO." It seems to be a major reason chapters take LCO items in the first place.

LCO items can be put out by a chapter with no restriction whatsoever. They're not governed by Treasure Policy the same way Restricted items are. It's why most of the NE chapters don't allow them.
I will tangent on this elsewhere: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=15345
 

Wraith

Newbie
RuneBrighteyes said:
I would prefer a "NPC one event then get to play 2 or 3 events" structure
As a player whose 'home chapter' has always been 4+ hours away, this seems like a great way to ensure that you never get any business from players who live outside your immediate area. Gas is well past $3 a gallon, who wants to pay to drive to someone's chapter -and- work for them for the privilege of paying them to play later?
 

phedre

Squire
Someone who wants everyone to get a chance to have a rockstar moment and enjoy the game?

I spent 2-3 years NPCing every game in a 6 hour drive (somewhere around 60 games total). I did it because I loved the opportunity to give someone an intense fight, or an RP moment that dragged them so deep into character they'd have one of those defining moments that help transform a character concept into an organically growing and evolving experience. If a chapter is short on NPCs and wants to implement a reward system to entice players to give some time to friends and fellow community members, I think turning to the portion of the community that frequents these boards is a good way to develop a basis for that system.

Dismissal of the idea doesn't contribute to a constructive discussion. Constructive criticism is always useful, but it has to include ideas for creating a new possibility or tweaking an existing suggestion.
 

evi1r0n

Baron
I am all for incentives for NPCs, just not forcing it. I wouldn't play OR if I was forced to NPC it and I don't see that as a slight. I love the people at our sister chapter but as I have said, "I play OR and staff Seattle." San Francisco, while many of my friends play there, I just don't have the scratch to travel that far on a regular basis, so all I got is Seattle and Oregon. On that note, if Oregon desperately needed NPCs to keep an event going, I would double hook or maybe switch sides for an event to help out.

I know the EC has a different situation, with more chapters in the area but any policy that would effect the Alliance as a whole, needs to be discussed from all angles.

Now I know some of you may be thinking, then there should be an exemption for staff members with OR/SEA. I also don't like the appearance of favoritism. You can drum up all kinds of NPC support by adding incentives, creating a guild, reaching out into the community, promoting at con, promoting at renfaires, etc. You can do all that without forcing NPCing. We just bumped our guild to 10 NPCs. With plot that's 14 dedicated NPCs that are at every game with some rare exceptions and that's not counting the walk ons and non guild NPCs.
 
fone make it gobbys make the 4 hours **** the same amount of gobbys as u would get if u NPCed a dayevent day events out in calif go from 12 till 6 so the 4 hours **** is 2/3ds the dayevent NPC time and since the player is paying to go to the event and taking time out of it to make the game beter for evry oen elis i think its worth it.
 

Undrask

Scholar
Here's how I see this:

Q: What's the ultimate goal?
A: To have more NPCs available for events

However, there's an implied part of that answer, and that's that we want to maintain a high quality of NPC. So there are a few moving points to this conversation:

How to incentivize people playing as NPCs
and
How to inceptivize good NPCing

Now, most of us already know a lot of the answers to that second part. In order to have a good NPC, the NPC has to a: want to be there and b: be having a good time with a good attitude. We DON'T have NPCs with these qualities if they are forced into being NPCs, so forcing people to be an NPC is right out. Ok, so the next way to get this kind of behavior is to make people WANT to do it, and apparently the innate desire for people to be an NPC isn't strong enough, so now you have to reward people by being NPCs! Well, there are already gobbies and blankets awarded for that, with 1x ever skills and magic items or whatever else your chapter uses, so apparently THAT isn't enough. Those rewards are the the most that your chapter can offer you without breaking the system, that's why there aren't higher rewards. Ok, so now forcing people to NPC and traditional forms of rewards are off the list.

So the options that are available to us are:
-Non traditional (aka: nothing we've seen yet) rewards systems
-Making being an NPC more fun and rewarding on the long term

If we're going to address the issue of having too few NPCs, I think that we're kind of stuck where we are. There aren't going to be any rewards that we can offer people that don't break the game, and if NPCing isn't fun enough as is, it never will be. The only way to make people want to NPC more is to incetivize them with a sense of community by BEING a community. People will want to NPC if they know it'll make the community better, but even then, don't expect miracles.
 
At our last event we broke the 'magic ratio' (of 2:1); to wit, we hit 5:3 without increasing incentives or altering our payout. I have no idea what I'll do with everyone if we hit 1:1.
 
right now atleast in SF insentaves to NPC are gobbys exp and a free teacher card, free to NPC free Food no rusk of death but no loot. you want to add somthing no one has ever seen in order to intice people to NPC more... make more +s to NPCing???

light brain storming

give them loot nothing much liek 1 gold per 3 games NPCed
given them higher ep then what a PC can earn at the same event
give them cookies
give them more then just a teacher card give then some forme of cupon for free plot for when thay do PC
offer NPCing at leat blank tiems per year as a way to get alower price for PCing
offeer rewords for dubble hooking like a free teacher card to a PC for dublehooking 2 hours at a game thay are PCing in, where what there PC has been doing while thay where NPCing is thay wore off studying....
offer more insataves to PCs and NPCs to drag there freinds with them to game and NPC
 

prashka

Scholar
Oregon Staff
Marshal
obcidian_bandit said:
At our last event we broke the 'magic ratio' (of 2:1); to wit, we hit 5:3 without increasing incentives or altering our payout. I have no idea what I'll do with everyone if we hit 1:1.
Squee with glee and send unending waves of Corrupt at us? ;)
 

jpariury

Duke
obcidian_bandit said:
At our last event we broke the 'magic ratio' (of 2:1); to wit, we hit 5:3 without increasing incentives or altering our payout. I have no idea what I'll do with everyone if we hit 1:1.
Town wipe. TBH, we had a few plans for what to do, I'll kick you some of the ideas.
 

Talen

Adept
Coming from LAIRE, I look at it this way.

We've been doing a mandatory NPC (or Logistics, etc.- basically "take a few hours out of game to help") shift for the game for decades. Notably, the requirement is suspended if you're traveling long distances (300+ miles)...so the folks who took the extra effort to come play get to do so.

It really does help.

Heavy makeup? Schedule their shift before they come IG or at the end, or use them for stuff like manning the Logistics or Monster Camp stuff. Being able to sign up for a specific time before the event starts does this just fine.

It gives you warm bodies to fill in spots you'd otherwise need FTNPC's to do. You can dress up that BBEG necromancer whose going to be running around all night and make sure he knows all the plot stuff you need...while you put the one-shift NPC's in as various bits of crunchy/random monster/minions that don't take as much time to dress up, mask up, and send out.

It's an old saw that more NPC's solve a lot of problems with LARPs...and it's true. Even for a few hours at times.
 

Lurin

Duke
It's interesting because in SoMN we've gone back and forth, there have been times were we've implemented fees (or removed discounts, your choice of flavor) to encourage some to PC when the ratio swung the wrong way. In general, from this one Owner's perspective (your mileage may very etc. etc.) With my extreme NPC discount (you cover a portion of your food basically) the system breaks down if there are less than 2 pcs to each npc or so. (we've done I think a 60/40 split before) Just from a cost stand point, at which time we actually have to raise prices on NPCs (because raising them on PCS would just create more NPCs) to balance the system as there is a real head count difference (from food and site fees).

a 1 PC to 2 NPC ratio would require the NPCs to pay nearly as much as the PC (Or the PC to pay significantly more) which is a possibility depending on your local and the game you wish to run.
 
So, I'm new to LARPing, having only done it once at Crossroads last year. But I NPCed and I can tell you that I had a blast. I don't know much about this and so my opinion may not help, but I'm giving it anyway. :lol:

It seems to me that people are going about this all wrong. This idea that NPCing is work? It's not. And I think everyone relating it to work is adding to the problem of certain chapters not having enough NPCs sign up. What really needs to be done is for people to show the benefits of NPCing. And there are A LOT!! I'm going to list some, and it might be a good idea to pass them on to new players. Sure, people who have already LARPed or role-played in any capacity might want to do a PC just because that's what they're used to and that's what they're attracted to doing. And that is totally cool. But there are a lot of people who are open to new ideas and suggestions, and showing them how NPCing benefits them would help both the chapters and the players!

Here's a quick run-down of why I loved NPCing:
- You don't have to be in character the entire time. You can take a break in Monster Camp if you feel like it.
- You can throw yourself into big battles with no worries or pressure. Sure, you want to win, which makes it a good battle for the players. But since you're not playing your own character, it doesn't matter to you as a player if the character gets killed. Plus, I got several lives, so I was able to try out several battle strategies, which was a blast!
- Since you're one of many NPCs, you can pick whether you would prefer to roleplay, fight, or both. And since the Plot team always has need for various different characters, there's always going to be something interesting for you to do if you feel like it.
- You can interact with a bunch of different PCs. Being a random townsperson helps you to see which PC characters are players that you might want to do a plot with. Sure, you can't use information you get as one NPC to help another NPC or your PC out. But being different NPCs helps you to interact with different groups that you as a PC may not interact with, which is really interesting and fun!
- The PCs love you. No, they really do. I had several PCs thank me for NPCing and offer me food and drinks. A few took time out of PCing to ask me what I thought about the game so far and if I was having fun, and they also offered me help and asked me to thank the NPC monsters for running after them through the forest!
- You don't have to make any decisions right away. Not sure what race or class you want your PC to be? NPC and try them all!
- You're involved in the plot, and you can feel it. I got a rush knowing the plan in advance, and seeing the reaction of the PCs when it all happened.
- You can still be surprised and intrigued and have fun. The PCs plotted a surprise attack against our NPCs, and it was awesome! As much as you might know about the plot, the PCs are always there to throw a wrench in the plan, which makes it a great game for NPCs too!
- It is SO MUCH CHEAPER to NPC, it's not even funny. You are literally saving HUNDREDS of dollars a year, and that's if you only go to one chapter. If you want to LARP but don't have extra money, which a lot of people don't nowadays, then NPC! You're still playing the same game as everyone else, after all.
- You get to know other players out of game. Because you do spend time in Monster Camp out of character, you really get to be friendly with your fellow NPCs and the Plot team. I love the memory of me and 4 other NPCs excitedly retelling a module we just played as we walked back to Monster Camp out of game. It's one of the best memories of that weekend I have! :yes:
- You don't have to bring costumes, props, or boffer weapons with you when you NPC. Don't want to spend money on items you may not use? Find out what kind of costuming and props and boffer weapons you like by trying stuff out at NPC Camp.
- Everybody is willing to help you out. I'm sure lots of people help out PCs as well, but I've had lots of people offer me help (information, giving me a ride, borrowing a tent, etc.) and mention that there's always a need for NPCs and so they're happy to help me however they can.
- You can learn about the world and the rules. People are more than happy to answer any questions you have, and the more information you have, the more likely you'll be happy with a PC once you create them. And any information helps you to figure out if this is the game for you.
- Everyone is genuinely thankful to the NPCs. Everybody knows that the game couldn't happen without the monsters and townsfolk and so forth. I got thanks for NPCing more times than I can count. I felt really welcomed and appreciated, It was AWESOME! :D

If someone doesn't want to spend too mcuh money on fees and equipment, if they don't want to stay in character all weekend, if they don't want to commit to a race or class before they know more about it, and if they really want other players to honestly be grateful that they came out to play, then NPCing is the way to go. :)

I haven't read this entire thread, so forgive me if I've gone over something that someone else already has. And I know that some of the benefits of NPCing have been stated in other places. But I really just thought I would throw my two cents in. Because sometimes people need to be reminded that NPCing is fun, too! :D

Honestly, if people don't want to NPC, they shouldn't have to. I dealt with NPCs that really enjoyed it and those that weren't really into it. I can tell you that it not only affects PCs when the NPCs don't care. It's not fun to try and plan an attack or try to make a story about a family if another NPC involved is just standing there like a scarecrow. After all, half of acting is reacting! I would much rather NPC with other players who are into it. That way we can play off each other and make it fun for both the PCs and us. :)

Anywho, I hope this helped!

~ Sarah :)

EDIT: I forgot to add that it was REALLY SUPER AWESOME to be able to relax out of game in the NPC Camp when I went. I mentioned it briefly, but it cannot be overstated. They had air conditioning, chairs, drinks, food, and all the latest information on what was going on in the game. It was like a free pass to a VIP lounge or something, no lie. XD
 

evi1r0n

Baron
Again, that doesn't address the issue that this doesn't work as a national policy. Some chapters don't need or want it. I would rather have players show up and PC. Our monster camp has a lot of secrets and write ups about the event. It would change our entire structure. Forcing people to NPC doesn't work. I am super stoked you enjoyed NPCing. I enjoy it too. But I do it full time in one chapter. I go to my other chapter to play. NPCing is free in both chapters. Forcing a paying customer to do something they don't want to do, isn't good business. Sorry to keep shooting this idea down but if your chapter needs it, apply it at a local level. At a national level I would fight this policy as much as possible.
 
evi1r0n said:
Again, that doesn't address the issue that this doesn't work as a national policy. Some chapters don't need or want it. I would rather have players show up and PC. Our monster camp has a lot of secrets and write ups about the event. It would change our entire structure. Forcing people to NPC doesn't work. I am super stoked you enjoyed NPCing. I enjoy it too. But I do it full time in one chapter. I go to my other chapter to play. NPCing is free in both chapters. Forcing a paying customer to do something they don't want to do, isn't good business. Sorry to keep shooting this idea down but if your chapter needs it, apply it at a local level. At a national level I would fight this policy as much as possible.
Well, that's essentially what I meant. Instead of forcing PCs to NPC, show new players the benefits of NPCing and maybe chapters having trouble getting NPCs will get more. I feel like because a lot of people talk about NPCing as if it's work or something undesirable, that is what makes some new players feel like they don't want to do it. It's all in how it's presented. "Not sure if you like the game? Come NPC, it's cheaper and easier and there's no commitment!" is a lot more enticing than "Hey, you should NPC because we need people to work rotating shifts of generic monsters for the players to kill in the forest." Again, just my two cents. :p
 
Top