The price we pay

dreadpiratebill

dreadpiratebill

Fighter
I asked a question Saturday night, that I still can not answer. For those who were just at the adventurers gather in Fairdale, you know that a Sunday was a day to be remembered. A great day for the goodly folk of the world. A great and powerful evil has been vanquished, and a war which has already cost thousands of lives, and would surely have cost thousands more has been ended. People who have been hurt, who have lost loved ones, and who have been displaced from their homes will soon start the long proccess of rebuilding what they had. This victory, this end to the war came at a price tho, and a steep price it was.

In what used to be the Plains of Rage is a large city, build tall and strong where a great mountain once stood. In that city, were many thousands of people. Tradesmen. Blacksmiths. Engineers. Farmers. Solders. Senators. Common folk who went about their lives in loyal service to the land of their birth. There is a problem with this city tho. This city is the capital of the Rotes Getragen. It is the heart of the Rotes empire Starkenstine, the City of Strength (translation). It is a place where a man may own another man so long as he is treated well and alowed to earn his "freedom". It is a place where those who will not join the empire, are subjugated by it, and indoctrinated into beliving that there is no other succesful way of life. It is from this place that their "doctrine of total order" was sent forth to their vast and very powerful armies. It is here that much of their power and all of their leadership, less their feild Isenvervectors (generals) would maintain their power.

Genocide is wrong. That is a simple statement that I belive most good folk would agree to. When The One tried to wipe out the Biata people, we rose up and stoped his Frejan Hordes. When the Kenhordil tried to spread their vile ideas and power we rose up and stoped them (tho I admit that was before I picked up the sword). Those who would seek the complete anihilation of another have and will continue to be our enemies. The Ordonkorps, (the Rotes Millitary) was a vile and evil force. They use necromancy and the undead to bolster their power. They use torture, pain, and suffering to achive their goals, which were no less then total world domination, for only in that goal could ther prophesy of total order be acheived. They would have used any means nessesary to destroy us, or indoctrinate us. They were trying to wipe us out.

There is no easy way to say this. Genocide is a tool of our enemies. As good people, who belive in the rule of law, and the riteousness of good over evil, can we ever find a time when such an act would be acceptable? When do we find it acceptable to put aside what we know as right and wrong, becasue our enemy is great, or our sacrifices becoming many? If such a time exists, where do we draw the line at what moral principals we are willing to turn a blind eye to, and which we are not? At what point do we become that which we have sword to defeat, for the sake of defeating it, or saving ourselves or even to save others?

Those are the questions I asked, and to which I ask of every man and woman who fought alongside me this past gather. I am no fool. I know what we did was genocide, and I heard the thousands of voices scream as they died painful permanant deaths only to be abruptly silenced by the grave. That city is a tomb now, filled with just as many non combatants as it is filled with troops. We killed them all at once in one great act of destruction that cared not who it killed. We will never know if the common Rotes man could be turned away from the path of their leaders. It is very possible that they could not, and that they would have restisted us and forced us to destroy them too. We will never know, becasue we never gave them the chance to know any path but the wrong one they were born to.

We did what we felt we had to do. I have walked a road darker than most. The argument that we had to, that it served the greater good, is a dangerous road to start upon. I know becasue I have walked it, and I have seen where it goes. I think these things here in the relm becasue I can not sleep. I can not silence the screams of those who died when we destroyed their Homestone. I am not condeming the Nobility, for they were given an imposible choice. Save the lives of their own people, at the cost of a people who might be beyond redemption, or sacrifice their own people trying to redeem the ones who can be saved, and very possibly loose their people enterly to war and death. I only put this forth to hear what we all have to say, for maybe someone out there can answer my question.

As a people, who champion the cause of good, who swear to be everywhere and always the champions of what is good and just against injustice and evil, can actions like ours be justified? Can the deaths of thousands truly be justified by the saving of hundreds of thousands? I have spent months trying to recover my sence of right and wrong, to live by the Code, and to reafirm my place amoung good men. Our actions may have been nessesary, but can we afford the cost? His Grace honored me this gather by stating he feared for my spirit but would reclaim me for the side of good. I fear for us all for what we have done.

I remain and shall always be a loyal servant of Icenia,
Councilman Amaranthus Landcharmer
 
I have not dreamed for many months. My silence was broken by the screams of thousands of souls being snuffed out in a single act. Is genocide only considered wrong when forces who oppose us use it? There is only one answer to this in my heart; it is *always* wrong. I can never condone or be a part of an action which would choose the genocide of an entire people. I am saddened beyond words that this was the choice that was made. I understand that war is horrific. I have stood on the front lines toe to toe with people who sacrifice everything, and I have done my share of sacrificing. I understand that by taking this act, we have saved the lives of our countrymen. However, I cannot live with the idea that we killed people who knew no other life, common people that were indoctrined into a way of life that the only other option was death or slavery. Are we the ones to say who is redeemable and who is not? Are we to use the same tactics that we see as despicable in our enemies? I fear there are no answers to these questions or words that will bring solace to my heart for this grievous day, and most terrible of choices we were forced to make. If we held the Roet Getragen to the standard of the choices made by their leaders and condemned and entire population to death because of it, we must hold ourselves to the same standard. We are all guilty. The blood is on all of our hands.

In remorse,
-Gwendara Alanik
Seneschal of the Stormblades
 
guardian is a earned title you are a stone protector.
Concerning this matter I am in the process of doing that which is required of a high guardian. Hopefully I will see you and we will talk in a few weeks.
 
Gwendara I will be sending you a letter soon detailing what I am doing but must reach my destination to send a letter. Much is happening beyond the black and white of this realm.{pm is screwed up]
 
It zeemz you all have conqured vone problem but run into anozer. Vat Amaranzuz zayz is true. It vas vrong not to give ze innocentz a chanze to learn vat iz right and vat iz vrong. But zen again I vas not zere. I vill 'ave to lizten to ze ztoriez about vat 'appened ziz veekend.

Amaranzuz iv you vould zeek me out ze next gazering.

~Lanna Rose
 
I'm not trying to fight with anyone Zatrina. Your message to me didn't come through, so I am not sure what you are trying to say. Please try again. I do want to know how you feel.

I'm not saying there is a black and white solution to what we did. I understand the complexity of the choice made. What I want, what I need, is to understand that this act of shear destruction is something we can live with and fully understand the implications of. That this day marks freedom for many and that as a people, we accept the cost of that freedom, and do not simply ignore or forget what was done.
Councilman Amaranthus Landcharmer
 
And it would seem things have come full circle.

Years ago, some of us were made to stand idly by, while our words fell on deaf ears about not unleashing a horde of necromantic slavers upon our home. That millions of Icenian lives would be at risk should this race of biata be released from their prison. The answer I received was that we would fight and destroy them once released from their prison. That we would seek them out, and destroy all evil wherever we could.

Now, I hear the nobility, who had promised to snuff out the evil of the Dominion, have done so successfully. It is good to know that the nobility made good on their promise. One shall never lie, and always remain faithful to thy word.

A decision such as this is never easy, but I will stand with what has been done. I would rather have the blood of necromancers and slavers, and their children stain my hands, then the blood of innocent Icenians who's lives I had sworn to protect after releasing this monstrocity. I would not squander our own people's lives for a mere -chance- that those people were redeemable.

I have lived in slavery. For what I had experienced, I would have rather had death. Let this be their peace.

-Aislynn Ravenshire
 
I am not intending to offend anyone . But you are not a councilman you are on a protector of the stone. For those of us who have spent years and years working and training to be a councilman,or a guardian it feels like a punch in the gut. I know due to all of this I am extra sensitive to insults. Please, we discussed this last month. I guess you forgot. Thank you times are depressing enough.



Zarerina Nar Norik Head Healers Guildmistress High guardian of Fairdale
 
Depressing? How is this depressing?!

An entire -race- of people were attempting to place us under their thumb, and use tainted magics to ensnare and enslave us. Through some sort of unknown (at least to me) route, they have been defeated and our people will no longer suffer these horrible atrocities.

Atrocities like being dropped from a gryphon thousands of feet to their death; That families will not only be killed, but their bodies will be misshapen into horrible, twisted undead. That our people will not suffer the tortures of theirs. That our friends, our brethren will no longer die their permanent deaths in sworn service against these evil beings....

Our innocent farmers, coopers, and anyone else who's families have been murdered, who's homes have been shattered, or otherwise suffered from these people will now be able to rest knowing their friends have been avenged, that there is one less nightmare in the world. That now the fear of the Dominion is over.

Am I sad that maybe people who could have been redeemed are now dead? A bit, if I considered them redeemable. Necromancers are NEVER redeemable.

-Aislynn Ravenshire
 
This is not the time or the place. I seem to recal very different words last October. They were "that a new council be created and it be lead by Amaranthus Landcharmer and Zatarina Norik, and that we should find a third since the likly hood of a split decision between us is fairly high".

Now, I am sorry if "councilman" is apperently the wrong term for one asked to co-lead a council. I am doing what I can, to be there for our people, to see to it they are taken care of, and that should they need me for anything that I am avalible. I travel and do what I can in the feild, becasue I know you can not. I am trying to be the legs and arm for our people in Fairdale so you can handle the traditions and the speeking. I have made myself known to them, and am doing what I can, and what was asked of my by Elder Xapano. We don't have the numbers, or the age of the others, but I am trying to build us up, to make this a place where our people can call home.

I am sorry if my doing as I was asked is a "gut punch" to you. I am None of this is on topic for what I wanted to discus here, but I will not have you telling me to be silent of the task I was given. We, together Zat, no matter how much you distrust me, are responsible for ensuring that one day, years from now, this is a place our people can rightfuly call home. I will continue my work, and I hope that one day you will trust me enough to include me in your work.

Now if I could please get this discusion back on track, I belive we were discusing the morality of genocide against a foe, and the possible reprecusions to ourselves as good people.
Amaranthus Landcharmer, just a man trying to do the right icon damn thing, titles be damned.
 
Their average citizen belived in their causes, but the idea that their trademen and farmers are all skilled at magic and necromancy is foolish. The Rotes have mandatory millitary service for citizenship, but there is not mandatory start date. When I whent through the Va Legion training accademy in Kastadat, I trained alongside recruts as young as their teens, and as old as a century.

In the history of almost every long lived race you will find a time when slavery was legal, and practiced. They learned that it was wrong, in time, and have become the races we concider people, and who fight valiantly against such injustices now. Are they guilty as a race for their ancenstors actions? Shall we purge them from the world as well?

Many thousands of people died Sunday. Many of them were children and tradesmen who were just born into the wrong side of good and evil. They were not all necromancers. They were not all evil. They were peolpe who were living a lie that had been forced on them for generations. Where do we draw the line? I want to know that by willingly sacrificing those thousands we haven't taken that first step twords beliving that such acts are ACCEPTABLE. We made a choice, a desision to kill them all, over the dangers and possibility of failure invlolved in defeating the evil which controled them. The Rotes goverment, and millitary were evil, vile forces, but their people were just doing as they were raised to do, and knew no other path. Do not be so quick to asume that they are the same thing, or you loose the things that makes of different from them like our compasion and our capacity for forgiveness, traits I lost somewhere along the way and only now can see clearly how far that meens I had fallen.
Amaranthus
 
Genocide. Funny, I thought the Dominion sought the same thing. Or worse, Enslavement of those that survived.

In my years I have seen Goblins, Bugbear, Gnolls seek redemption for their acts of Slavery and Necromancy. Not once did I even so much as hear stories of a citizen of the Rotes Getragen seek such a thing. Not a farmer, smith or soldier. None of them. Not one ounce of remorse from a single one for their actions. Or the actions of their people. Setting Brute Gryphons upon our defenseless common folk, dropping Romani from the sky. Their regin of terror knew no boundary. Except to capture and enslave those they deemed valuable enough to serve them without will.

Had but a single one even so much as tried I might think the same way as some of you. But they didn't. And I don't.

In fact I take great honor in knowing that in centuries time I will still be singing tales of heroes from this day. A day when a near unstoppable force was bested by the insurmountable will of better people. A day when an evil that could hardly be contained all those years ago was instead put to a final rest. And the sacrifice of those who imprisoned this evil will be the beginning of this tale. Of a people whom knew they could not defeat such a foe yet paid the highest price for thier people. All in hopes that someday before the prison failed heroes would rise up a become strong enough of spirit and will to do what must be done.

Amaranthus, take solace in these facts. They were fallen. Their people lay dead in their capital city. Yet even defeated and knowing it they still fought to the last man. Reidic Legion was offered surrender. They refused and demanded honor in combat. Even then they used trickery to attempt one last stab at us. We gave them every opportunity. For that His Grace was nearly Obliterated. Would you be happier if every last one of them had come forth to place themselves upon your blade? Because Amaranthus, that is what they did. To the very last one.

--Joaquinn Illiam of the Ash Forest
 
Amaranthus,
Joaquinn's words ring true, and are the same thoughts that I here, could not muster to say as well as he has. Today should be a day of celebration and remembrance. For the lives lost to that war, and to the thought that now we may be free of it.

-Aislynn Ravenshire
 
All those who could fight back, any who drew blade or spell I have cut down, without remorse, in this war. I did what I could to get as close to their horrid leaders as I could so I could force a sword as deep as I possibly could into them, to cut off the head.

Never before have I seen good men advocate the killing of children. Never before have I seen them lay waste to a whole city, indescrinantly. Yes, thier armies and they leaders were evil beyong messure. Yes they hit us with every manner of evil they could bring to bear on us. The fact that their goal was the genocide of our people, tells me that genocide, and such indescrimant warfare is a tool of our enemies, not one we should pick up for ourselves. They kill our commoners, and drop Romani from the sky. Dose that meen we sink to their level? Are you telling me it was ok becasue they would have done it to us? Was this about saving our people or was it REVENGE?

Where do we draw the line? When do we say that beyond all hope, they must all die. I understand the choice, but the idea that its ok, that its acceptable, that it was even desireable fills me with dread and a powerful sickness. I heard them all die. I heard the screams in my mind as clearly as I could see them all drop dead. I can not silence them. I stand here and tell you that nessesary or not, thousands of those people had done NOTHING to deserve such an agonising permant death other than be loyal to their homeland, and live in ignorance to how evil it was.
Amaranthus
 
Done nothing to deserve it Amaranthus? That is far from truth. Very far.

You claim they knew no other way. I claim you are correct. Except I go so far as to say they had no desire to know any other way. There are acts one can take that are intrisically evil. The difference between good men and bad is how you react in that gut wrenching feeling of doing something wrong. Good men recoil and swear never to commit the act again. Evil men rejoice in that feeling.

Frankly Amaranthus I am disappointed by your crusade to ensure we all feel deeply guilty for what we have done. For it to hold any weight with me you should have began this crusade long ago. But no, I only got to hear your stories of the "innocents" involved in all of this afterward. In fact I wonder to your true reason behind all of this. It wasn't until you felt your life in danger from repercussion for acts against the Morgrave. While I do hold no ill will against those acts they cast doubt in my mind as to your goals now. Are we to feel guilty or are you just trying to differ your own feelings unto us just to make yourself feel better for actions you have taken during this time?

I leave you with this friend Amaranthus. You say what we did is evil. Yet in all this time, in all the time of war, in all the time between knowing what we were going to do and actually going to do it, I have yet to hear one suggestion about how to do it differently. So I ask, Amaranthus, what would you have done? And where was this great wisdom 2 days ago?

--Joaquinn Illiam of the Ash Forest
 
Vy are you all zaying he iz vrong? Amaranzuz iz not vrong.

Zure ze vones ve zaw vere horrible beingz zat dezerved to die. BUT vat ov ze children, vat ov ze people who lived zere never knowing vat vas going on outzide ov zere valled zity? Can you truely zay zat zey dezerved to permenetly die along vith ze vonez zat cauze uz zo much pain? Zat is vat Amaranzuz azkz you all to look back on.

Vaz it abzolutly nezizary to kill every lazt perzon that vas related to ziz in any vay veather it be through blood or birz? Azk yourzelves zat before you try to zay vat you all did vasn't bad.

Pleaze I don't vant any vone mad at me. I know I vaz not zere. But I hear the conzern in Amaranzuz' voize. But I 'ave zeen vat ze dominion can do. But I alzo believe zat ze vones zat vere not involved in combat zould 'ave had a chance to zee their faultz.

Lanna Rose
 
Ask Barron Ivan or Duke Broomis as I spoke long and hard with them about it, trying to find another way, but I am sorry I could not come up with another solution in one night's time. That broken Stone drove all who live around it tword anger and hate, and destrying it or getting them away from it eventualy would have been the only way to save those people from themselves, but I did not know how to acomplish such a goal without killing everyone in the city. I did voice, repetedly, the consequences of our plan. I asked the same questions then that I ask now about the morality of it all. Those Nobles whom I could speak to did not have answers for me, only that there was no other choice. When it came time, and the Nobility made their choice, I stood by them, and I fought to see it through.

I did not learn of the plan until dinnertime Saturday. Before that I thought we would utilise the artifact to move our armies to Starkenstine, to use military might to crush their leaders. I thought this war would continue, but that we would topple their capital, and perhapes that if they were forcfuly shown that the prophesy was a lie that at least the common folk could surender. If not, and if they too picked up arms and refused reason then it would be sad, but they too would be cut down. I thought that there would be a time when their armies would be defeated, and some kind of healing could begin. I never brought it up becasue we seemed so far from that point.

My issue with the Morfangs is part of this, but not in the way you think. Along with the Morfangs the last three years of my life have been filled with acts many would concider evil, and I myself have justified them with the fact that I knew them to be nessesary at the time. That my actions would hurt few to save many. I have been told, by those who we follow as Nobility, that my actions were wrong. That there was a time when I should have walked away, becasue somewhere, that gut feeling told me it was wrong and I either ignored it, or worse, had lost it.

After being told that, after being told that on the small scale it was wrong and that I needed to evaluate my sence of right and wrong and make sure I have not lost who I am, the same people devised a plan to kill thousands. I do not know what I am soposed to learn form this. Was I right, and I did what I had to do? Was I wrong, and walking a path of darkness? Where are we now?

I am not trying to inflict guilt. I am not trying to lessen the goodness that is the Rotes defeat. I am trying to reconcile in my mind that "gut" feeling as you say that this was wrong. I am trying to silence the screams which echo endlessly in my mind from being in close proximity to the stone when it was destroyed. I accept it as nessesary. I just need to know that something like this wasnt desired, that going this far wasn't acceptable, but it was nessesary, and therefore our only course.

I need to know that one way or the other that the man I burried to complete my mission didn't die alongside those people. I want to hear what people have to say becasue I need to hear it. I need to hear all the sides so I can figure out why I am feeling the way I am about this.
Amaranthus
 
If that is all you question Amaranthus, look to the Code of Chivalry. It is there you will find your answers.

-Aislynn Ravenshire
 
I have been trying, but perhapes you would be so kind (and I am not being sarcastic) as to elborate on how the Code can answer my questions about this. The Code is something I hold very dear, both becasue for a time its all I had to keep myself from falling like Emilio did to his own vices and becasue it was what I was raised to respect. I belive the Code to be more than words on parchment, but that the Code holds within it the very principals and ideas which we use to define right and wrong.

Where in our understanding of right and wrong and of the Code do I find the answers that explain the screams in my mind? When the tools of our enemies become tools we concider using, were do we draw the line?
Amaranthus
 
All of this talk of innocents and children is beginning to anger me.

Who are you Lana Rose to speak on this matter? Did you bother to read how these Dominion dropped your people from the sky so that Lady Knight Glorianna could bear witness? How Romani men, women and children were tossed like rag-dolls to prove some point they were trying to make? How many children of our own now sit in the orphanages of Baron Ivan and Lady Knight Glorianna becasue their parents were murdered by these people? Did you bother to read or ask about the night that they sent a Gryphon to town to murder everyone in their sleep? How a farmer came running this past gather to have us help him with Dominion raiding his farm for supply? How they used Gryphon and Undead to those goals? How they used Enslaved common folk to do everything from ambushing those that would do the right thing to attempting to blow up the Nobles table?

If you think the goals of these peoples were anything but to rule over you and yours then blindness has plagued your vision. If you think the fracturing of their homestone is what caused this insanity you only need to read your history. If you think that every last one of them, including their common folk and children would not have fought to the very end then I can only say you were not present for the last stand of Reidic Legion. If you think ignorance is innocence then I don't even know why I am trying to explain anything.

Every day for the past few years was a "chance" for them. A chance to cross the border and say what they were doing was wrong. Not a single on ever took this on themselves to do. Not a single one ever showed compassion or guilt for the Enslaved that were brought back to their city. No remorse for watching their "leaders" raise the permanently slain from their place of rest to gather an army to fight.

No they gave us 2 options. The same as they gave the ones who only managed to imprison them. Kill them or be killed and enslaved by them.

--Joaquinn Illiam of the Ash Forest
 
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