Tournament Feedback

[Gilwing]

A few personal opinions about the Tournament:

Combat:

1. I also liked the multiple fights for the first part. It won't be as easy with team combat, but it's doable.

2. I like having each team face each other though. As it was, luck had a lot to do with the last competition as opposed to skill; if you faced off against a really great opponent in the first round, you could be eliminated even if you were better than 90% of the rest of the competitors.

3. There will always be problems with either way of doing this ("real" weapons verse padded). No way will ever please everyone. We switched to "real" weapons because of the problems with padded ones, which some people may be forgetting. I prefer "real" because with padded, we spent like 20 minutes before each competition having to explain all these new rules to everyone and there were more Holds and such too. Everyone knows the rules for "real" weapons already.

And there are certainly people who like the old way better. Those are usually the ones who you hear from most, because the ones who like the new way don't say anything. When we had padded, it was the exact opposite: The people wanting it to change spoke louder and more often. That's the way it is with politics too, of course -- the ones speaking the loudest are the ones most wanting a change, but they don't necessarily represent the majority.

Now, I said "don't necessarily represent the majority" so I could be wrong. Maybe everyone does want a change back. I'd like to hear from people on this.

The problem with padded damage is that a play can cheat IG. With real dmg if the player is not taking the dmg then it is an OOG cheat. I for one am completely guilty of this. Scott made an OOG statement about how some peoples forearms were red from being hit...Yes OOG I was totally tagged but IG with padded weapons my character can say that it didn't hit me. I explained this to Scott following his OOG speech. I think the next year it was made into real dmg. Also the IG cheating can go the other way. IG a judge can say it was a valid hit when it wasn't, but if the dmg is real the judge (who should be OOG as well) will be honest.

 

[Dreamingfurther]

Yea, from what I've heard of padded damage rules I for one like tournaments with real damage...

 

[Ezri]

Rules wise of course live damage is easier. But in-game people have a lot of issues with it.

I don't really have a good solution though.

 

[Gwendara]

Yeah IG, I hate real damage. My character sees it as a waste of resources (healing etc) for games that could be better put to people who really need it. Also to her, getting cut up is bad enough when you're fighting an enemy she has a very hard time inflicting that pain on the good guys. So from an IG stand point she'd refuse to enter that kind of combat. OOG it's much easier to rule. I don't really know where to find the balance between the two.

 

[Duke Frost]

Rules wise of course live damage is easier. But in-game people have a lot of issues with it.

I don't really have a good solution though.

Only the IG sissy characters. :lol:

I also think a lot of characters/races like it. I can't see the dark elf posse going "Let's pad our weapons so we don't hurt each other....waaaaah", nor orcs, ogres, barbarians, dwarves or sarr.

Bring on the blood sport, I say!

 

[Duke Frost]

And the "resource" argument is pretty moot. We had plenty of NPC healers there to heal people. I even had PC healers jump in front of me to heal downed people and using their spells instead of the NPC spells.

 

[Mike Ventrella]

Yeah IG, I hate real damage. My character sees it as a waste of resources (healing etc) for games that could be better put to people who really need it. Also to her, getting cut up is bad enough when you're fighting an enemy she has a very hard time inflicting that pain on the good guys. So from an IG stand point she'd refuse to enter that kind of combat. OOG it's much easier to rule. I don't really know where to find the balance between the two.

Well, from a plot writer's perspective, that's a good thing. Plot comes from conflict! Characters who object to using live steel (IG) can add all sorts of IG debate, discussion and arguments. Plot Committees like that.

We like to have tough issues and difficult choices and gray areas. Not all of our plotlines resolve themselves cleanly where it is obvious that the good guys did the right thing. (Dominion plot, anyone?)

 

[Lurin]

I know I wasn't around for this event, but I had to smile at our recent Tourney event when the playerbase decided by general consent that they would use the Gaden Dueling system (basically a fight to 5 'hits' no damage) regardless of what the organizers had planned. (the loser would simply yield)

 

[Dreamingfurther]

Rules wise of course live damage is easier. But in-game people have a lot of issues with it.

I don't really have a good solution though.

Only the IG sissy characters. :lol:

I also think a lot of characters/races like it. I can't see the dark elf posse going "Let's pad our weapons so we don't hurt each other....waaaaah", nor orcs, ogres, barbarians, dwarves or sarr.

Bring on the blood sport, I say!

Yea, pretty much what Scott said... Bring on the blood!

And seriously, if the whole world is going to fall apart because one small group of adventures use their resources for a little fun competition with each other... it was going to fall apart anyways... At least I can't see my characters being that self important...

 

[Duke Frost]

Yeah IG, I hate real damage. My character sees it as a waste of resources (healing etc) for games that could be better put to people who really need it. Also to her, getting cut up is bad enough when you're fighting an enemy she has a very hard time inflicting that pain on the good guys. So from an IG stand point she'd refuse to enter that kind of combat. OOG it's much easier to rule. I don't really know where to find the balance between the two.

Well, from a plot writer's perspective, that's a good thing. Plot comes from conflict! Characters who object to using live steel (IG) can add all sorts of IG debate, discussion and arguments. Plot Committees like that.

We like to have tough issues and difficult choices and gray areas. Not all of our plotlines resolve themselves cleanly where it is obvious that the good guys did the right thing. (Dominion plot, anyone?)

Is this really conflict though? To me as a player, good (read: fun) conflict is monsters and politics and large moral issues, not whether we're gonna use a couple extra healing spells and arguing over the rules of a tournament.

Scott

 

[Mike Ventrella]

Is this really conflict though? To me as a player, good (read: fun) conflict is monsters and politics and large moral issues, not whether we're gonna use a couple extra healing spells and arguing over the rules of a tournament.

Scott

Well, I certainly wouldn't base an event on it.

But my point remains that if there is a debate about this, I'd much rather have it be an in-game debate as that provides in-game discussions and conflict.

 

[Ezri]

The conflict is that your "lawful good" characters feel like they shouldn't participate in tournament because it's a waste of resources, but some of them (particularly some of the nobles) feel obligated to do so. So either they do poorly in tournament or they get gooned later because they're out of spells/skills.

That kind of conflict doesn't generate plot and it's not fun. The people who like the "blood sport" never seemed to have an issue using padded weapons before, because that's just how it was.

And the change was made for out of game reasons, so we're discussing it out of game.

 

[Dreamingfurther]

Honestly from the tournament events I've observed... It seems like most plot teams adjust reasonably for the fact that many PC's will be using their **** on each other...

 

[Gilwing]

Honestly from the tournament events I've observed... It seems like most plot teams adjust reasonably for the fact that many PC's will be using their s*** on each other...

See thats the whole fun of tourney...your spell caster should conserve those spells for the fight but of course if you get in trouble in an encounter...well I would hope that you would use it. Same for a fighter for the heros combat. If you ran into trouble on firday night, its your choise to use that parry or not. So even before the tourney start you have to make the right moves.

Is this really conflict though? To me as a player, good (read: fun) conflict is monsters and politics and large moral issues, not whether we're gonna use a couple extra healing spells and arguing over the rules of a tournament.

Scott

Well, I certainly wouldn't base an event on it.

But my point remains that if there is a debate about this, I'd much rather have it be an in-game debate as that provides in-game discussions and conflict.

I felt the same way about Magic Items...

 

[Ezri]

But that's my point exactly Dave. I don't want to have to choose between playing tournament or playing the rest of the game.

*shrug*

 

[RiddickDale]

People still used parries even with padded weapons. The one event I watched as Dikembe I saw QUITE a few padded attacks get parried.

Having only ever participated in live steel tournaments I can't say that I have any real experience with the padded stuff, but the harsh reality is this:

As much as you don't want to make a choice about playing in the tournament or in the rest of the game, you have to make those choices ALL the time. Do I go on this mod and blow my skills now or save it for the wave battle before logistics tomorrow? Do I cast my 1 life spell or have my friend with 2 left cast? Do I Slay/Terminate/Prison this big bad? or save it for a big bad later one.

You have to make choices. Why would it be any different for tournament?

 

[Dreamingfurther]

Is this really conflict though? To me as a player, good (read: fun) conflict is monsters and politics and large moral issues, not whether we're gonna use a couple extra healing spells and arguing over the rules of a tournament.

Scott

Well, I certainly wouldn't base an event on it.

But my point remains that if there is a debate about this, I'd much rather have it be an in-game debate as that provides in-game discussions and conflict.

I felt the same way about Magic Items...[/quote]

If your talking about how the change in the way you activate items I'm not sure how an OOG activation mechanic vs. an OOG spell incantations, both of which are established as a system of the game could be an IG issue? Items on anyone were faster than casters. Now casters with items are fastest, followed by casters, followed by non-casters with items. But this would probably be a discussion for another board.

Anyways yea, we all make choices on what to use our skills every event... The way I see it, using my skills sometimes on things other than the monsters gives my character a chance to hone and practice those combat skills without all the risk of dieing...

 

[Gilwing]

Is this really conflict though? To me as a player, good (read: fun) conflict is monsters and politics and large moral issues, not whether we're gonna use a couple extra healing spells and arguing over the rules of a tournament.

Scott

Well, I certainly wouldn't base an event on it.

But my point remains that if there is a debate about this, I'd much rather have it be an in-game debate as that provides in-game discussions and conflict.

I felt the same way about Magic Items...

If your talking about how the change in the way you activate items I'm not sure how an OOG activation mechanic vs. an OOG spell incantations, both of which are established as a system of the game could be an IG issue? Items on anyone were faster than casters. Now casters with items are fastest, followed by casters, followed by non-casters with items. But this would probably be a discussion for another board.

Anyways yea, we all make choices on what to use our skills every event... The way I see it, using my skills sometimes on things other than the monsters gives my character a chance to hone and practice those combat skills without all the risk of dieing...[/quote]

Dave I mention in the drawnout MI post a while back that the saturation of MI's was an IG problem. But that is moot.

 

[Gilwing]

People still used parries even with padded weapons. The one event I watched as Dikembe I saw QUITE a few padded attacks get parried.

Having only ever participated in live steel tournaments I can't say that I have any real experience with the padded stuff, but the harsh reality is this:

As much as you don't want to make a choice about playing in the tournament or in the rest of the game, you have to make those choices ALL the time. Do I go on this mod and blow my skills now or save it for the wave battle before logistics tomorrow? Do I cast my 1 life spell or have my friend with 2 left cast? Do I Slay/Terminate/Prison this big bad? or save it for a big bad later one.

You have to make choices. Why would it be any different for tournament?

So true

 

[Dreamingfurther]

I felt the same way about Magic Items...

If your talking about how the change in the way you activate items I'm not sure how an OOG activation mechanic vs. an OOG spell incantations, both of which are established as a system of the game could be an IG issue? Items on anyone were faster than casters. Now casters with items are fastest, followed by casters, followed by non-casters with items. But this would probably be a discussion for another board.

Anyways yea, we all make choices on what to use our skills every event... The way I see it, using my skills sometimes on things other than the monsters gives my character a chance to hone and practice those combat skills without all the risk of dieing...

Dave I mention in the drawnout MI post a while back that the saturation of MI's was an IG problem. But that is moot.

Yea, I remember now.

Anyway, choices choices...