[.11] Unified Blow

Feldor

Scholar
Marshal
I suppose it is interesting that unlike back attacks & backstabs, which do half extra damage with a bow, that this skill continues to do full damage with a bow. This is supposed to be the pinnacle ability for an adept, so maybe that is reasonable. But it is definitely something noteworthy, and seems like something to watch how plays out in the play tests.
 

DiscOH

Artisan
"the character may expend any Signature Spell of the appropriate aspect from memory to gain 10x the level of the spell in damage and gain the Body carrier for a single swing From Behind."

This sounds like it adds to normal weapon damage. Is that accurate?
 

Feldor

Scholar
Marshal
They give an example in the rule doc showing that it does indeed add to normal weapon damage
 

DiscOH

Artisan
Well, I think we solved the "biata can't swing body" problem then.

Earth scholars will never be tempted to harm with necromancy when they can just convert healing to double body damage spontaneously.
 

Durnic

Squire
Owner
Oregon Staff
Marshal
Well, I think we solved the "biata can't swing body" problem then.

Earth scholars will never be tempted to harm with necromancy when they can just convert healing to double body damage spontaneously.
Call it the "ol' Earth 'boop'".
 
Well, I think we solved the "biata can't swing body" problem then.

Earth scholars will never be tempted to harm with necromancy when they can just convert healing to double body damage spontaneously.
Earth Scholars?

I thought this skill required 60 xp in Stealth Skills. How many Earth Scholars have invested that deeply into Stealth Skills?

-MS
 

Feldor

Scholar
Marshal
So, the other interesting bit about this is, is for a Spellsword who has access to "Combined Strike" its effectively 72 build to get access to a "United Strike" (and some rogue skills & defensives as well) -- which is more than double damage, and scales off any weapons profs they have as well. And swings body, so its lets an earth Spellsword have a non-necromancy way to do a lot of damage. This may be idle speculation, given that this a 250+ XP build minimum; but you could have an spellsword archer throwing 10-12 from the front and that if they made use of unite strike, could be doing 100 body packets for as many 9th list spells as they have. And its likely with that build you'd have a good chunk of defensives from both stealth & martial. And if you were inclined to buy more base damage for the bow, weapon profs give 1.5 damage per. And since profs go up in cost, for an archer, there is probably even a time where buying your first backstab is cheaper than another weapon prof - at 4 weapon profs, your first backstab costs the same as your 4th prof.

The interesting change to this versus the old rules is that the defensive ability purchases are based off XP spent in stealth skills, not backstabs. So yeah, as a Spellsword you can only get 2-3 backstabs for 60xp or less, but you can get 2 backstabs, 2 evades and a dodge for 60xp, and this qualifies you for United Strike.

Honestly, I'm not sure how useful it is to speculate about the power of builds that don't really come in to their own until 300+ XP. It seems likely that at that power level, things get hard to compare.
 

Axle

Newbie
So, the way this ends up being read, are Archers with spell trees intended to be much more powerful than Celestial Casters? Why would I incant, and then throw 40 Spell Flame, when I can not incant, and throw 80 Body?
Yep, and if you go pure scholar you can get it sooner as well because the road to formals is cheaper.
Earth Scholars?

I thought this skill required 60 xp in Stealth Skills. How many Earth Scholars have invested that deeply into Stealth Skills?

-MS
I'd be super willing to buy a couple backstabs, some evades, and a dodge for being able to throw for x10 spell level body damage. Plus you get more cheap damage after that point by just expanding your tree. If you have anything around 200 xp it's super worth it.
 

Feldor

Scholar
Marshal
I mean, there is a clear 'fix' here. If United Strike were made to follow the same pattern as Backstab & Back Attack, it'd only do 5x spell level via a bow vs 10x spell level with a weapon from behind. And I suspect if this actually is a problem, that wording will go in to place. But I can see why they didn't put that wording in before it was play tested. It could be an interesting iconic fighting style. "Arcane Archer" is something I've seen people in many systems fall in love with as a concept.

(Its still interesting to me that United Strike adds weapon damage, but that Combined Strike does not, as I think it makes United Strike notably slightly more powerful of the 2 capstone abilities.)
 

Tantarus

Squire
(Its still interesting to me that United Strike adds weapon damage, but that Combined Strike does not, as I think it makes United Strike notably slightly more powerful of the 2 capstone abilities.)
Combined Strike is not blockable as it is a Strike. Which is the trade off for alot more damage I guess?
 

Tantarus

Squire
So wait... An earth Templar can only burn spells for healing or chaos carriers via combined strike, making it super limited. But an earth adept can burn spells for massive body carrier damage boosts?
 
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Feldor

Scholar
Marshal
So wait... An earth Templar can only burn spells for healing or chaos carriers via combined strike, making it super limited. But an earth adept can burn spells for massive body carrier damage boosts?
Yes, with the restriction that adept has to deliver the attack either with a ranged strike, or from behind.
 

DiscOH

Artisan
Earth Scholars?

I thought this skill required 60 xp in Stealth Skills. How many Earth Scholars have invested that deeply into Stealth Skills?

-MS
It costs an adept 91 exp to unlock their first formal
It costs a scholar 76 exp to unlock their first formal

United blow is 10 exp for an adept, 12 for a scholar
Archery is 8 for an adept, 12 for a scholar (4/6 for elves)

Scholar unlocks Arcane Archery 9 exp earlier than an adept (11 for elves)

Spell costs for Adepts are 20% more expensive (average) than for scholars

Scholars unlock the skill earlier and scale faster

It's a scholar skill
 
It costs an adept 91 exp to unlock their first formal
It costs a scholar 76 exp to unlock their first formal

United blow is 10 exp for an adept, 12 for a scholar
Archery is 8 for an adept, 12 for a scholar (4/6 for elves)

Scholar unlocks Arcane Archery 9 exp earlier than an adept (11 for elves)

Spell costs for Adepts are 20% more expensive (average) than for scholars

Scholars unlock the skill earlier and scale faster

It's a scholar skill
Perfectly correct analysis, but you fail to note one very important thing. For 60 xp, a Scholar only gets two Backstabs. For the same xp, an Adept gets three Backstabs and one or two per day skills (possibly two Evades). The Adept is getting much better bang for the buck and that matters in real life character creation (even if it doesn't matter much on paper).

I honestly don't think a lot of Scholars are going to spend build that inefficiently just to get a skill that doubles spell damage at the cost of being blockable by a shield, especially since the Body carrier is meaningless against a majority of non-undead monsters.

I could be wrong, but given efficiency of xp expenditures, I really do think this is an Adept skill primarily.

-MS
 

Feldor

Scholar
Marshal
I think you might be undervaluing the value of more than double damage. There isn't really a way for a caster to throw a 90+ damage packet otherwise. And it also doesn't prevent you from just throwing them as spells against shields.
 

mythic

Knight
Owner
Calgary Staff
I honestly don't think a lot of Scholars are going to spend build that inefficiently just to get a skill that doubles spell damage at the cost of being blockable by a shield, especially since the Body carrier is meaningless against a majority of non-undead monsters.
The body carrier is the most effective carrier for all monster. I’m fairly confident that no monster in the 2.0 database has any reduction (and there are none with immunity) to the Body carrier.
 

DiscOH

Artisan
Perfectly correct analysis, but you fail to note one very important thing. For 60 xp, a Scholar only gets two Backstabs.
A scholar doesn't need to buy any backstabs. You can spend that build on (in this order to demonstrate prereqs):
Create trap 1 (now you can lockpick) 6xp
Alchemy 3 18
Counteract 24
Evade 30
Dodge 36
Counteract #2 42
Evade #2 48
12 points of weapon attacks

Since defensive are unlocked at the same rate, you're only behind on backstab count. 1-2 backstabs don't really do much when you're already throwing 14s with a level 1 spell.
 
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tieran

Duke
Gettysburg Staff
Marshal
You’re probably better off buying alchemy, dodge and evade. Maybe create trap, but I think getting either alchemy or trap is the best option.

I’d probably go:
Alchemy 10, evade, evade, dodge. Comes out to 60 on the nose. You could even buy another dodge and an evade if you have the build.

With riposte not being a return defense anymore I think the value of counteract is low.

Also, dodge is 8 for a scholar, not 6 as you have above.
 

Manflesh

Artisan
Would Unified Blow work in conjunction with Vorpal Coatings?
 
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