v0.10 - Mettle vs Disarm/Destroy

[Draven]

Considering the relatively cheap cost of Mettle compared to Disarm, I think it might be a relatively fair compromise if Mettle were able to be used to negate a Disarm/Destroy landed on the fighter. Since Disarm is extremely cheap in cost and hugely powerful in effect (even Spirit Link only reduces the effect, but still takes the weapon/shield out of play for five seconds), a fighter who invests in Mettle could at least offset that weakness.

While you could Parry a Disarm, that's a really expensive defense to be forced to use in response to such a low-cost ability.

Edit: This is an idea for an additional capability of Mettle, not a removal of Mettle's current capabilities to do this instead.

 

[Tantarus]

Honestly I think Spiritlink should be a No Effect call to disarms. Not a replacement effect. You know if you are going for simplicity. Much in how a rendered item is no effect to shatter effects.

That way fighter types can shrug off lesser effects like disarm as they do with with shatter now. Makes a shield or sword more reliable for defense. And removes another corner case strange rule like how disarm vs spirit link currently functions.

 

[Avaran]

-

 

[Draven]

The question then becomes: Does making Spirit Link "no effect" to Disarm worth making a level 1 spell (and low-level Fighter Skill) potentially "useless"? Is keeping that level 1 spell relevant worth it? I feel like this affects PC's more than NPC's since Plot can just put "Immune to Disarm" on monster cards they don't want to worry about Disarm. Much the same way they deal with Waylay by putting "Immune to Waylay" on cards.

I have similar thoughts. It doesn't make Disarm more dangerous against people that aren't already vulnerable to it (which is good), but it definitely boosts the value of Spirit Link (that can be a boost for BBGs, honestly, as weapon-using BBGs have Spirit Link but not necessarily immunity to Disarm).

Yeah, actually. I think I'm okay with that. Especially since Disarm is definitely going to be more easy to use (and arguably more powerful) in the current playtest; I think Spirit Link/Lock would be an acceptable way to counter.

That doesn't really answer my OP, though. Do people support the idea of Mettle also being usable to negate Disarm/Destroy?

 

[Tantarus]

The question then becomes: Does making Spirit Link "no effect" to Disarm worth making a level 1 spell (and low-level Fighter Skill) potentially "useless"? Is keeping that level 1 spell relevant worth it?

Render or any year long lasting ritual makes a 3rd level spell in shatter "useless". So there is precedent, that this seems fine. Disarm is low level spell, much like shatter it is fine for it to eventually become obsolete, while being very powerful at low levels.

I think mettle should work against shatter/disarm effects. Makes it better without being broken.

 

[Tantarus]

I also think it should be default 3 secs for the stun.

Or better yet, how about this, not a stun instead it is a no magic items or per day skills can be used for 5 or 10 secs. I feel like that is far more useful for melee.

 

[Draven]

I’m more referring to Mettle just “Resisting” without a stun on either Disarm or Destroy.

 

[Tantarus]

I like the idea, but not a fan of making it have 2 different effects based on what you are mettling. Already will be a pain to remember what you can and cant mettle.

 

[Draven]

I feel like this isn't -that- big an issue. While on paper, sure, it looks complicated, but in practice? I'm pretty sure a Fighter who uses Mettle versus a Disarm in my proposal would somehow learn to remember they can still keep beating someone to death.

 

[Tulbor]

It was pointed out by NPC/Plot that an NPC with monster strength can rip out in 3 seconds, during that time they're still getting pummeled by PCs, or at least taking a few shots at minimum. With that in mind, the 3 seconds for Mettle was suggested instead of 5 and not as a "use two of these"). Because while disarm only effects you for 5 seconds, you are able to step back and pick up another weapon, or go chasing after your disarmed weapon. Mettle doesn't allow you to move, so it is a bit more relative to ripping out.

 

[Avaran]

-

 

[Tulbor]

Only after the 5-seconds has elapsed. Before that, you are unable to pick up your disarmed weapon.

you can still go chasing after it

 

[Draven]

I think Tulbor means more like, "I'm gonna stand over my weapon so nobody grabs it until I grab it."

 

[DiscOH]

Shatter works on invulnerable armor in v0.10 (alternate effect, set current armor points to 0). Not sure if that's a new change or not.

Claws already make disarm useless against a ton of targets, adding spirit link to the immunities would basically change it to target only NPCs. That seems wrong.

 

[Tantarus]

I feel like this isn't -that- big an issue. While on paper, sure, it looks complicated, but in practice? I'm pretty sure a Fighter who uses Mettle versus a Disarm in my proposal would somehow learn to remember they can still keep beating someone to death.

Sure but you are also adding in 4ish new fighter defenses that all work on different things and function differently? This is not working towards a simpler game for new players to understand.

Claws already make disarm useless against a ton of targets, adding spirit link to the immunities would basically change it to target only NPCs. That seems wrong.

So your experience is every PC has spirit linked weapons? That seems a bit crazy to me. And definitely not the case in Seattle.

 

[Draven]

Even if that was the case, there’s already precedent for it: Banish, Subjugate, literally every anti-undead spell. Alliance is primarily a PVE game; a spell being mainly useful against NPCs isn’t abnormal at all.

 

[norman b]

Even if that was the case, there’s already precedent for it: Banish, Subjugate, literally every anti-undead spell. Alliance is primarily a PVE game; a spell being mainly useful against NPCs isn’t abnormal at all.

I think his stance is from a Plot perspective. Having one effect group completely nullified by PCs does suck to try and plan around.

 

[MondayMcGee]

It would also end up making Disarm disproportionately effect new players, who are generally less able to readily access rituals. I have problems with Shatter/Destroy for the same reason.

 

[Tantarus]

It would also end up making Disarm disproportionately effect new players, who are generally less able to readily access rituals. I have problems with Shatter/Destroy for the same reason.

I think of all the things that can target a noobie disarm is pretty safe. Shatter is alot more brutal to a new player, with lasting effects.

 

[Draven]

It would also end up making Disarm disproportionately effect new players, who are generally less able to readily access rituals. I have problems with Shatter/Destroy for the same reason.

I’m pretty much in agreement with Tantarus. Want to know what’ll really mess up a new player? Drain.