What if? (Magic Items)

M

mikestrauss

Squire
Imagine if all single use magic items could be used by anyone and all times / day magic items could only be used by someone with the appropriate skill?

How would this affect your game?
Assuming a trade-in was allowed, would you trade in times/day magic items for an equivalent number of times ever magic items (for magic items you could no longer use)?
For purposes of this discussion, high magic unlocks banes and cloaks. Casters could use times/day banes and cloaks, rogues could use times/day dodges and evades, and a fighter could use times/day slays and parries once they bought those skills? Would magic item access affect your class decision (technically any class can get any skill, but costs are extremely prohibitive)?
Would you consider getting a small pyramid as a fighter or rogue just to unlock magic armors?
etc.

-MS
 
My game, I'll play first. I'd make friends with a potion maker and purchase a lot of potions. It isn't quite as fast as a magic item, but it is a lot cheaper. In fact, in general, I expect production skills would increase in value notably.

-MS
 
What about passive items, such as protection aura? What about items that don't duplicate build bought skills, such as spellstrikes?

I think you'd see a lot of spell-light templars to be honest.
 
Dan Nickname Beshers said:
What about passive items, such as protection aura? What about items that don't duplicate build bought skills, such as spellstrikes?
Click to expand...

Curious about this too. What about Spell Parries?
 
Honestly, I didn't spell out every detail. Feel free to treat spell parries as requiring whatever you think might be required. For example, I could see just parry being required or maybe parry and any spell casting or maybe parry and high magic. Spellstrike could require a spell slot of the appropriate level and a weapon skill, or maybe even a proficiency / backstab.

But, honestly, that is all kind of corner case anyway, especially since such magic items are MUCH less common than activates, cloaks, banes, and honestly, even than skill stores.

-MS
 
mikestrauss said:
Honestly, I didn't spell out every detail. Feel free to treat spell parries as requiring whatever you think might be required. For example, I could see just parry being required or maybe parry and any spell casting or maybe parry and high magic. Spellstrike could require a spell slot of the appropriate level and a weapon skill, or maybe even a proficiency / backstab.

But, honestly, that is all kind of corner case anyway, especially since such magic items are MUCH less common than activates, cloaks, banes, and honestly, even than skill stores.

-MS
Click to expand...

Honestly,having dodge be times/day if you have a Dodge is the most OP thing ever.

I'd pick the set that let me use my times/ever dodge, buy a dodge set and forget about anything else.
 
I understand the frustration with pocket scholars, skill store dodges, and cloak walls, but I feel like this is a huge overreaction. I don't think this is the best way to solve that particular problem, nor am I entirely convinced it's something that needs to be fixed right now.

Also, are spell parries and spellstrikes really so rare that they can be called corner cases? They're not as common as expanded enchants, but they're both very useful rituals. I have two of each.
 
There is a way to test the "magic items are ruining the game" theory ... if any chapter has the balls to do it. :)

Run a year long story where the only rituals / magic items allowed are Spirit Only effects. "Restricted" magic items don't have to be accepted, after all.
 
Honestly, when we first started Catskills (now Asheville) it was a low level, level capped chapter, with a good mix of new to new-ish players, and players who were making a 2nd, 3rd, 4th or 5th character. (Or, in Ray Nagle's case, like his 22nd ;) )

There were like 12 magic items in game, total (not factual, but there weren't many compared to long-established chapters like say, Oregon or New Jersey), and the number slowly grew as the chapter got older; more items dropped (an APL 4.2 game doesn't generate a whole lot of magic items... mostly times evers). When the items were rare, it was amazing... spell versatility was carefully considered and memorization wasn't "I guess I'll take a few of these and a few of these, just in case." With a 4-4-4-4-3-2-1, you carefully consider each and every slot. Even moreso because there were no items as backups.

I wish I'd had the chance to play more, although I wouldn't have traded my time on staff there for anything.

I'd love to play a chapter where there weren't scads of MIs, as any and all of my characters.
 
Yeah when I first started playing in NeroNW The only non times ever magic item in town was a +1 Dagger. For 3 years. Which made fighting magic to effect creatures pretty rough. We didn't have life spells for the first 2 years. (only 3-4 games a year) outside of innkeeper NPC that may or may not be around. Honestly I prefer that to what Alliance has become on the magic item front. It was a lot more fun when player skills made the player, not what he was carrying. Classes mattered. And the fear of death was high. As was the actual rate of death. It made for a lot more fun and interesting game, imo. Rather then a ton of cloak/dodge/bane calls every fight. I remember more then once hiding in the woods as a single necromancer would take over the town with a horde of lesser undead.

I would love to see class matter again and some kinda magic item restriction. When someone was dead, people would say, "We need a earth caster!" rather then, "Who has life spells?" only to have everyone around no matter the class raise there hand.
 
I just want to add that I, as a large blocked earth caster do not feel in ANY WAY devalued by a half dozen people on the field having life items.

#1: I can't life myself.
#2: There are still some days where the town runs out.
#3: The power of earth magic isn't in any ONE spell. It is in the ability to stand behind one guy or a group of people and make them invincible for even a short period of time. Some rogue with a life item and a handful of cure morts can't do that.
#4: I grant you the gift of Death.

I'm less concerned with people "stealing my thunder" with items than I am with them being unbalanced through the combination of said items. A life item on a rogue does not make them overpowered.
 
Excellent post and idea Mr. Strauss.

phedre said:
I'd love to play a chapter where there weren't scads of MIs, as any and all of my characters.
Click to expand...

+1 to this. That number of characters sound just about right.

KyleSchmelz said:
I understand the frustration with pocket scholars, skill store dodges, and cloak walls, but I feel like this is a huge overreaction. I don't think this is the best way to solve that particular problem, nor am I entirely convinced it's something that needs to be fixed right now.
Click to expand...

I think of this as a pretty nice midstep (at least from what I want to see). Everyone can get SOME of everything, but only people with the proper training can get EXTRA consistently. I really like how this forces people to really consider the use of their times ever items. And it will be more likely to make this happen again-

Tantarus said:
I would love to see class matter again and some kinda magic item restriction. When someone was dead, people would say, "We need a earth caster!" rather then, "Who has life spells?" only to have everyone around no matter the class raise there hand.
Click to expand...
 
Do chapters have to participate in the Ritual treasure system? I know you can't put out more, but what about less? Like zero less.

I may check with the owners about running a sub-campaign where the entire ritual system is absent. "Magic Items" are production scrolls and potions, Greater Earth circles naturally occur in places and are strategic resources that entire Kingdoms will go to war over and Build bought ritual ranks only exist to power high magic. Restricted items/effects can't come in and there is no way to get LCO ones. Clearly the monster database would need minor tweaking, but not so much.

Hmm, I think I might actually see about running a twice or maybe three times a year sub-campaign for a two or three year run. Come up with a really compelling single long arc and run a game J. Michael Straczynski-style.
 
I'd play that sub-campaign.
 
As would I.
 
Sorry I derailed your thread Mike... :tears:
 
Toddo said:
Sorry I derailed your thread Mike... :tears:
Click to expand...

Toddo, go start another thread so I can post in there that I'd play as well.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top