0.10 - Takeout Abilities: Are they needed?

[Tantarus]

Just because you’re not a human anymore doesn’t mean you’re not expendable, buddy.

Please, people dont even know my base race, I have changed so many times in 20+ years. And without eli or avaran I think you might need me this weekend

 

[Tantarus]

As a very-long-time Fighter, I actually like this concept, it makes Fighters scary to casters in a different and (I think) interesting way - it's not a take-0ut effect, per se, but it's also not just more damage or a straight take-out like Eviscerate. Add-in like a 3-second period where they can't summon more mana, and I think it'd be just about right. It'd likely need to be a more expensive/higher-pre-req skill with all of that, but, yeah, I like the idea/concept.

Meh, I prefer silence strike. Works well, dont need to learn new effect.

 

[Saephis]

Meh, I prefer silence strike. Works well, dont need to learn new effect.

I'd still like to see the added location for Stun Limb.

 

[Banradi]

Nothing is universally morally wrong. There is no such thing as a moral absolute, only widespread cultural biases. :|

Pretty sure he'd rather take an arrow for Vellis than shoot one at her - she's far more valuable alive than as target practice.

Is she? You know she is a stone elf right?

Man I'm getting the urge to fly out and play with you Sea/OR folks, if only for the fact that it sounds like Vellis and my Selunari Banradi seem to have a lot in common (I know, it's weird for me too. )

 

[MaxIrons]

I like it as a separate effect if we are continuing with "must have X fighter build to take Y."

 

[Saephis]

I like it as a separate effect if we are continuing with "must have X fighter build to take Y."

I'm all for that, if constant damage becomes a byproduct of build invested into a class.

 

[Draven]

I'm all for that, if constant damage becomes a byproduct of build invested into a class.

I’m on that train forever.

 

[Ozymandias]

This post very neatly sums up my feelings on takeouts. I'm not sure the number of takeouts needs to decrease for scholars, but hard vs soft CC is a critical distinction. The more "sit down for 10 minutes" effects in the game the worse the game is. Shortening the duration on hard CC across the board (not just for players with a skill because this hurts new players), and limiting hard CC is critical. Removing Web was a very good and very tiny step in the right direction, but in my opinion complete takeouts should be 9th level spells only. Alchemy also needs to be reworked so low level effects are soft CC rather than hard CC and it is very expensive to throw hard CC effects.

Suggestions for more Soft CC:
New Spell: Soothe. (Command) Lasts 1 minute, creature cannot attack you or cast offensive spells at you for 1 minute. Level 1. Available to both Earth and Celestial.
Slow. Great inclusion in new rules. Perfect at level 2.
Repel. Good where it is.
Bind (Arms) Bind (Legs). Only one should be able to effect a character at a time.
Disarm. Increase to 3rd level. This effect is good just too easy to come by. Allow this effect to discharge magical energy held in hand as well.
Lesser Silence. Player can't cast spells over level 5. Level 4 spell. Can't talk louder than a whisper.
Weakness. Cause the player to do half damage rather than 5 less damage. Increase level by 1 to 4th.
Shun. Keep.
Sleep. Allow 1 point of damage to body wake the player up. Lower level by 1 slot to 5th.
Shatter/Destroy. Remove one shatter effect and allow the weapon/armor/shield to be repaired by Blacksmith. Reduce level to 6.
Silence/Destruction. Keep, maybe increase Silence by one level to level 6.
Confine. Get rid of this.
Charm. Keep.
Stun Limb. Keep.
Paralysis. Increase to 9th level.
Death. Keep.
Prison. No killing blows in a Prison DOES last 10 minutes, move to Bindomancy.
New Spell: Doom. Ranged Eviscerate (In Evocation School) for Celestial.

I'd also keep all necromancy. Necromancers should be scary.

I think this is an excellent analysis and should be taken under serious consideration. As a note, I play a strict Bindomancer, and although I understand I am clearly biased I also recognize that I can be pretty freaking powerful.

 

[Graham Wolsey]

So your proposed buff to disarm knocks all spell packets out of a casters hands? Both hands at once or just one hand? If both hands you would need to make disarm also strip both weapons from a weapon fighter if they were the same type, or you're adding more needless complexity to the game.

One hand, just like currently, though perhaps the change to making the cast drop everything in their left or right hand would be the cleanest (it also alleviates stupid rules arguments concerning whether a spellshield is a valid target and cheese monkey players who claim their longsword is a scimitar and don't drop it.

There's also the question of parity between having to pick up a single item to get back in the fight vs. having to pick up ten or more. If a single hand, that's not going to stop any smart caster from pelting you with the packet in their throwing hand while reloading their staging hand. At worst it just means I have to keep spare packets in pockets on both sides of the costume now.

Spells don't need to have parity. Silence is a minor inconvenience on a fighter but a devastating spell against a caster. The opposite is true of weakness, shatter, destroy, pin, disarm, etc. Having a spell that effects casters more than weapon based combatants is actually good for game balance rather than the other way around.

Disarm working on intangible energy would be the weirdest thing ever.

Nah, calling energy out of nothing and violating the laws of physics, literally bringing someone back to life after their head has been removed from their body, or waving your hands at someone and causing them to explode is the weirdest thing ever. Magic is magic and there should be more ways of interacting with it not less.

 

[Graham Wolsey]

If you are landing strikes against a caster, damage or evis are going to be far better IMO.

If they are a normal caster. I've fought lots of casters with phases or hundreds of body. I agree against a PC scholar terminate or eviscerate is likely to be more effective, well unless they are a Hobling then your two terminates aren't going to get you very far.

 

[Draven]

Nah, calling energy out of nothing and violating the laws of physics, literally bringing someone back to life after their head has been removed from their body, or waving your hands at someone and causing them to explode is the weirdest thing ever. Magic is magic and there should be more ways of interacting with it not less.

We’ll agree to disagree, then.

 

[Avaran]

-

 

[Saephis]

Alternately: Change Fighter-disarm to be Sever, and make it only "recoverable" with a Restore Limb.

Sure, it'd be duplicative to an extent to Stun Limb, but frankly, as it currently stands, I know I have little interest in Fighter-disarm. I'll keep my 1 level of Celestial for its far superior disarm.

 

[Graham Wolsey]

Drop anything including magic held in one hand is much much more simple than the current rules.

 

[Gilwing]

So you mean, "drop everything in your hand".
Hehe