[.10] - Relics impressions

Saephis

Squire
Ok ... other than Casters with their Cloaks, no other PC will have access to Curse-specific defenses in 2.0 (since all those old Cloaks/Banes Curse/Gift will be going away). And Mettle cannot be used against Death. So I am still not following the thought process that Death will be resisted more.
Selunari Resist Curse. And maybe not "more than currently", but certainly more than if Gift were its own effect group.

The Life from Life Relic can counter a Death, but it is 1 of 2 in the game that could counter Death (the other being Spell Life). Death and Corrupt are the only two effects in the game that can only be solved by a single effect (Life) AND if not solved will lead to resurrection. All other abilities and effects in the game can be resolved with multiple other effects and abilities, and do not guarantee resurrection if unresolved.
It also requires a (presumably unique) relic to use each one. An NPC, for example, won't necessarily have a bangle of all four relics in all cases -- I'd honestly be surprised if this were the case in the majority of cases.

Assuming Body falls in the 2.0 Monster Database, I am not sure Destroy Undead would need much, if any, buffing. But I have little experience with that spell ...
Maybe, but if so, would maintain balance -> Create Undead (in Corrupt) vs Destroy Undead (even if they don't work that way), Life vs Death.
 

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
For what it's worth, I made a proposal to the owners regarding a change to the Death system in order to compensate for the drop in Life spells across the game (loss of Expanded Enchantments) and to allow communities with less access to Earth magic (groups that are really fighter-heavy, younger communities, etc). I do not know the status on it:

Intent: This will take pressure off of Earth Casters from feeling forced to memorize Life spells, which are currently the only way to take someone from Dead to Alive. Also, it would take a little bit of the power away from Death (not because someone is necessarily safer from Death, but because it's easier to recover from).

A) Replace the status of "Dead" with "Mortally Wounded." This is for thematic reasons, because the proposal relies on healing, and healing a Dead person would seem weird.

B) When a character moves from "Bleeding out" to "Dying," they drop from -1 to -50.

C) If a character receives 50 Healing within 5 minutes of being Mortally Wounded, they stabilize at 0 Body and Unconscious (or become conscious at X body, if they get healed more than 50).

D) The Death curse would drop a character to -50.

E) First Aid is insufficient to tend to a Mortal Wound, and would result in a "No effect" call immediately.

F) The mortal wound timer cannot be stopped, even from receiving healing (this will prevent characters from trying to provide minimal healing in order to extend the clock as long as possible). If the full 50 isn't received within 5 minutes, the character moves to Dead and the body immediately dissipates to Resurrect.

G) The Life spell fully heals someone who is Mortally Wounded (allowing for Life to still be very potent, as it should be).



--------------------------------------------------------------

Were this proposal accepted, I'd have less of an issue with Death spells flying through the air like the latter stages of the Harry Potter series.
 

Saephis

Squire
A fair amount of my interest in Death is that there's no actual debilitating effect in the set of relic abilities. Even lower level earth columns have things like pin or web.

Maybe replace Destruction with Paralysis, if Death is "too scary". Being absolutely chained to "That thing's got a pulse? Well I guess you gotta go all chaos-y" isn't really fair.
 

Alavatar

Baron
A fair amount of my interest in Death is that there's no actual debilitating effect in the set of relic abilities. Even lower level earth columns have things like pin or web.

Maybe replace Destruction with Paralysis, if Death is "too scary". Being absolutely chained to "That thing's got a pulse? Well I guess you gotta go all chaos-y" isn't really fair.
My thought process with the Relic idea was to give them a theme. I was toying with the idea of having Order be Binding ("stay put!") + Paralysis themed or Command themed, for instance.
 

Polare

Count
Alliance Rules
Moderator
Seattle Staff
For what it's worth: While I love the theme of Alavatar's ideas on Relics, it's ... pretty complicated.

It would be slightly less complicated IMO if the "charges used" corresponded to the spell level you'd memorize the same effect at. At least that way someone only needs to remember one "value" for, say, Destruction instead of "it takes a 7th level spell slot OR 10 charges".

Still seems more complicated than we'd want to put in, but I like the idea.

(personal opinion only, nothing official here)

-Bryan
 

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
I'd argue it's less complicated than tracking damage incurred from three or four combatants while simultaneously trying to defend myself. :p
 

Inaryn

Knight
Wasn't it called cast on the fly? I miss that. Would be great and the person that got that cluch awaken and won the battle wouldn't be saying, "that could have been healing"
Sort of, except that drop for healing/necromancy means you memorize as normal... so if you want to be able to throw that healing, you have to memorize it. BUT, you aren't pigeon-holed into *having* to memorize it since you can drop that destruction for a 35pt cure if you need to.

With the move to healing at every spell level, the healing storms, and the potential of the potency ritual, I fell like Earth has been power adjusted enough, but still needs that something shiny like wands are for Celestial. I just don't feel that a wand analog is what Earth needs.

Also, Imma say it, drop for healing is a *way* easier thing to implement than relics.
 

MaxIrons

Squire
Oregon Staff
Marshal
Thanks for the information.

So, between the Owners and the Public, it seems like the targets for Relics are:
  • Requirement: No duplication of Wands with damage or healing
  • Requirement: Something new and novel
  • Requirement: Be in-line with Earth Magic Paradigm
  • Requirement: Be useful in combat
  • Option: Useful against Undead
Given those parameters, here is my (notional and probably over-complicated) suggestion:
  • Create a new item, Relics, that provide 1 charge per 3xp invested in Earth Magic Skills
  • Relics come in 4 Types: Order, Chaos, Life, Death
  • Charges may be used for:
    • Order Relic:
      • 1 Charge - Elemental Chaos Guard via Touchcast by 10-count
      • 3 Charges - Elemental Turn Undead
      • 3 Charges - Elemental Sanctuary via Touchcast by 10-count
      • 5 Charges - Elemental Cure Disease
      • 10 Charges - Elemental Destroy Undead
    • Chaos Relic:
      • 1 Charge - Elemental Healing Guard via Touchcast by 10-count
      • 3 Charges - Elemental Control Undead
      • 3 Charges - Elemental Desecrate via Touchcast by 10-count
      • 5 Charges - Elemental Disease
      • 10 Charges - Elemental Corrupt
    • Life Relic:
      • 1 Charge - 1 Elemental Healing via Touchcast by 10-count (i.e. 10 second First Aid, terrible for healing that 100 Body Fighter)
      • 3 Charges - Elemental Antidote
      • 3 Charges - Elemental Cleanse via Touchcast by 10-count
      • 5 Charges - Elemental Restore
      • 10 Charges - Elemental Life
    • Death Relic:
      • 1 Charge - Elemental Endow via Touchcast by 10-count
      • 3 Charges - Elemental Weakness
      • 3 Charges - Elemental Shatter via Touchcast by 10-count
      • 5 Charges - Elemental Silence
      • 10 Charges - Elemental Destruction
Tweaking this a bit to be a bit simpler because KISS ideas are part of the reason for the redesign as I see it.
Relics come in 4 Types: Order, Chaos, Life, Death
  • Charges generate slower for relics than wands, I'm not sure on the amount. Gut says somewhere between 5xp to 10xp.
  • Charges may be used for:
    • Order Relic:
      • 1 Charge - Elemental Cleanse
    • Chaos Relic:
      • 1 Charge - Elemental Disease
    • Life Relic:
      • 1 Charge - Elemental Cure Disease
    • Death Relic:
      • 1 Charge - Elemental Weakness
  • Enhance Relic ritual allows your relic to be used the following way:
  • Charges may be used for:
    • Order Relic:
      • 3 Charges - Elemental Destroy Undead
    • Chaos Relic:
      • 3 Charges - Elemental Corrupt
    • Life Relic:
      • 3 Charges - Elemental Life
    • Death Relic:
      • 3 Charges - Elemental Destruction


    Thoughts while working on this: Death just seems too strong to give even for 3 charges, hence the Destruction. I kept toying with an instant First Aid effect for Life at 1 charge but can't come up with a good way to implement it without adding an effect, which is counter to the idea of reducing effects.
 

MondayMcGee

Scholar
San Francisco Staff
I kept toying with an instant First Aid effect for Life at 1 charge but can't come up with a good way to implement it without adding an effect, which is counter to the idea of reducing effects.
1 Magic Healing?
 

MaxIrons

Squire
Oregon Staff
Marshal
I'm down with that, but is it comparable to the rest of the effects? My heart says yes and I came within a hairsbreadth of putting that down.

Edit: And to keep it in line, I'd do 1 Elemental Healing
 

Muir

Fighter
I like the elemental healing, both because it is less likely to be stopped by a dumb defense, and because it continues my favorite narrative that Elemental Shield is actually a death curse that will inevitably lead to resurrection. :)
 

John

Artisan
How would a 10 sec touch cast shatter be used?
 

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal

John

Artisan
Ok but it seems like a lot of resource for a lock. It will only take one create trap and you could pick it. To each their own I guess.
 

Muir

Fighter
Honest question, how many people do you imagine are going to bother to engage with the trap system if they don't have to? Right now, it's a huge waste of time and build in many chapters, and while .10 makes that a little less true, it's not really looking all that compelling to me.
 
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