A distressing observation

Fight back at all costs if you feel threatened. It's a duty to yourself. There was however a moment in between them fighting and their death. That's the moment I'm talking about. The immediate threat is gone at this point. They're not gonna rise from the dead because at this moment they aren't dead yet. That's what Jonathan was talking about as well i presume. Bind them, heal them, turn them them over to the authorities, maybe even leave them to their own devices to bleed out, give em a kiss with a nice pat on the butt and congratulate them, who cares? Why kill them? That's all we are asking. However in the end I still fight beside the adventurers of Hope's Reach. My healing has helped stave off the deaths of some of them on several occasions.I also understand why the adventurers kill bandits. I just agree with Jonathan that he has a valid point. Maybe more contemplation about the value of a life (even a bandits) would be useful. Maybe we could turn more allies out of the situation. You attract more flies with honey than vinegar. In addition what's done is done. It's just reflection. You made the best choice you could.

-Lok of Harbors Far
PS Gandian you still owe me two silver
 
bahahaha... Zell, point, set, match, game.

though i'm sure there are elements who would suppose the military wouldn't hurt these bandits... or would let the kobolds go unharmed. neither of which i think is true.

seriously though, kobolds we nice to the very last. they didn't hurt anyone, even when their lives were threatened repeatedly. they were cute little creatures who i did not harm a hair on a person, elf or otherwise, even after some of them were killed. i saw that one put a guy in a prison for killing a kobold, an they brought him back to his friends and released him from the prison unharmed after they told him off. then he walked over a killed a couple more kobolds as thanks for not dumping him off a cliff, or letting some poor farmer kill him and take everything he got. if you ask me, the dude didn't deserve to go free. these are some of the creatures we deal with, and i for one think their lives have meaning

there i go being all serious... booooooooring

-James the inconceivable of Harbors Far
 
you like inane conversations on morality topped with chocolate grandstanding and sprinkled with berries of no-sense-of-humor?

...elves....

-James the inconceivable of Harbors Far
 
I think perhaps that the issue with your perception is simply that you are not an experienced adventuerer, and as such have not yet developed the finely tuned paranoia and disregard for sentient life that keeps one such alive despite every attempt of the world.

-Shin
 
Perhaps.

-Lok of Harbors Far
PS Gandian you still owe me two silver.
 
because shades of grey of course fade with time. as long as you're going blind, and kinda dense too...

or maybe getting really really old.

-James the Inconceivable of Harbors Far

PS Gandian, you owe Lok 3 silver
 
To the person who first raised this outcry, I apologize for not addressing you by name but you haven't presented one for use. Through all this tomfoolery, I hope you have noticed the two outstanding Adventurer responses: "She tried to kill me, so I am justified in killing her and robbing her blind" and "She acted illegally, I am justified in killing her and robbing her blind". If you adventure for any length of time, you will hear these "justifications" clamor repeatedly in your ear. Both are filled with inconsistencies and lead to their own downfall. Consider your own actions, do not let others prompt them.

In terms of the Law, others have already spoken my words: let the Sheriff deal with brigands. Adventurers are not the law. The thought that martial prowess bestows righteousness and position upon an individual is wrong from every conceivable vantage point. A sword conveys neither intelligence nor position, it only offers leverage. There are many, most in fact, far more qualified, trained, and endowed by the King to make Lawful decisions. Do not act outside your purview.

Finally, the Spirit is an absorbent entity, when you act in Imbalance it will start to overcome your Mind and Will and soon you will fall into decay and decadence. Thievery leads to murder leads to mayhem. Today's "justification" for killing and robbing a kobold becomes tomorrow's "justification" for killing and robbing your own people. Most adventurers fall into the role of grave-robbers and skirmish-carrion, don't allow them to upset your Balance.


Master Dramthin Hartsboon
Keeper of the Tainted Grove
 
Very well put sir. I couldn't agree more with the last part about the progression from justified crime to clear, but somehow self-justified illegal acts.

-Lok of Harbors Far
PS Gandian you still owe me three silver.
 
We mustn't forget that this issue was about self-defense and 'ow far is too far. I think it's easy t'get lost in the 'eat of bat'le when your life is suddenly endangered. I don' think we should fault adventurers for this.

In this specific case a friend and I were resting on the ground when the "merchants" arrived. We weren't in a 'urry to kill anythin'. We only expected t'talk trade. It was this mindset, this trust that could have cost us all our lives. Those men star'ed swingin' before we were even on our feet. 'Ow can such a desire for slaugh'er be justified?

Why are we so upset over their rights and less upset over their intentions?

I'd say this mindset is par' of what's wrong with our socie'y.

Leniency sends a message of acceptance.
 
Felixmac09 said:
But, you admit that if you were starving, you would kill to eat. So can you sympathize with the bandits at all?
And what would be wrong with feeding them? Or handing them to the local military, to be trained and fed and helped out of their situation? We could have come out of this with three new allies if we played our cards right.
You say the innocent die first. I feel I can do something to prevent that.
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I only admitted you would 'ave put me in that situation. I wouldn' kill random people if I could 'elp it. Why do you think I work in the tavern some? It ain' because I 'ave nothin' bet'er t'do. Those men would've 'ad the same choice. They made the wrong choice and I wouldn' want them as allies anyways. If nothin' else they proved they were not t'be trusted.
 
i do have a question for the sheriff man, what should people do when bandits come out when the military is far from their location?

i'm pretty sure bandits wait for the military to be not in sight to ambush people. The smart or successful ones anyways...

my point is that you're looking at things in black and white, when they obviously aren't. in an ideal situation, the military is the only authority that should be trusted because they are the only authority.

-James of Harbors Far
 
When you allowed them to slowly bleed to death on the ground or, worse yet, drove your dirk through their heart while they were defenseless you were no longer protected by any "self-defense" argument. Instead of bringing them to the authorities you debased yourself.

You said if you were put in the same position you wouldn't kill people; well, when you were put in position to show mercy and restraint, you decided to murder. I hope the leniency that wasn't shown them is shown to you when charged with capital crimes.

Their intentions, their choices, their thoughts have no effect on your actions besides what you allow. Don't follow the easy path simply because it offers the most plunder and the simplest decisions.


Master Dramthin Hartsboon
Keeper of the Tainted Grove
 
there was no mention of plunder from the bandits. You are assuming as to why those people killed the bandits.

you are right it was cruel to leave then bleeding to death, or ending their lives, but unprovoked attacks are generally what seems to happen with undead and other like-minded things. hahahaha, even the undead that i have met have offered up more restraint than the story of these bandits. they may have bled like men, but they didn't act like them

-James the Inconceivable of Harbors Far
 
Thank you good sir.

I don' believe I ever said I murdered anyone 'Artsboon. I only offered debate about it. I'm glad you find the act of self-defense so easy as t'be considered on par with murder. I bet you could 'ave saved us all with your 'ands tied be'ind your back, no loss of life included.

A pity you weren' there this time. Should I create some sort of signal that you might ride in and tell us what's right an' wrong? Next time I'm attacked I'll be sure to wait on you... since we're all such bad people for not lyin' down and lettin' ourselves be stabbed through our 'earts, allowin' our decayin' bodies to be ransacked of every piece of coppe' after the fact.

Yeah, I'm ashamed at my gall. 'Ow dare we not stand silently before the brigands of the land? 'Ow dare we refuse t'be victims?
 
Ok, dhis be real 'ard tah sit by an not speak up.

First off, Hi Dramt'in, it be a long time frien'. How 'ave ya travels been, an will dhey bring ya back tah Wayside any time soon? I sure we 'ave many stories tah share whit each oda.

Next. Tah any of dha aut'orities dhat be hear'n all dhis, I like tah state dhat MOST of dhese folks neva been tah Fort Milla, o be part of dha Hope' Reach area adventure'n folk. I sure dhey be plann'n tah head dhere, an dhat be all fine, but dhey 'ave not yet...an dhey not been introduced tah dha Council o' dha Sheriffs of dha area.

Now bout all dhis talk... Well...Jonat'an be right bout quest'n dha moment right after danga, cuz gutt'n dhem aint always dha right dhing tah do. I bandaged many folk an toss em inta dha woods, but only when I got dha time...it aint always dhat way, but I do mah bes'. If ya don' at leas' consida dhese dhings, well dhen ya be jus' as good as dha folk dhat be mad with bloodrage an' kill fo dha love of see'n dha life blood spill out. So consida dhese dhings, and take em tah 'eart. Dhere always passio' in dha momen', but it bout know'n when ta 'old back an take dhat litta bitta time when dhe foe be bleed'n on dha ground tah consida if ya should let em redhink dhere bad choice.

I learn dhis lesson from Mara Glenbeck, na most ya might not know who dhat be, but she be dha best mistwalka I eva met, she lived whit a passion dhat rival dha fiersiest o' Mystic Wood Elves, and dha calm considaration dhat would make a Stone Elf blush when it came tah dha Life of anotha. I hope dhat dha lesson she taught me will stay in ya min' an' heart foreva, an dhat it will alway be 'membered.

-Hengin
Guardian of Hopes Reach
 
satsukirebel said:
I don' believe I ever said I murdered anyone 'Artsboon. I only offered debate about it. I'm glad you find the act of self-defense so easy as t'be considered on par with murder. I bet you could 'ave saved us all with your 'ands tied be'ind your back, no loss of life included. ... Yeah, I'm ashamed at my gall. 'Ow dare we not stand silently before the brigands of the land? 'Ow dare we refuse t'be victims?
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Your sarcasm aside, you make a valid point. I did assume you had acted as such in the past. With so many voices in the Dreamworld and so few attached to names, as the conventions of self-declaration are not as prominent in your Kingdom as they are in mine, I was in error. Please, accept my hat in hand apology for accusing you of actions you did not commit. I would ask your family name and visage that I might not make such mistakes in the future.

Now, in reference to your talking point, I believe you have mistaken my position. I advocate neither pacifism nor standing idly by as your family is attacked. Self-defense is important, the very cornerstone of civilization. The Law itself was developed to protect the weak from the strong, to ensure that those with power do not use it to abuse those without. What I strongly denounce is ignoring both civilization and the Law for one's personal gain. I see no difference between brigands waylaying travelers for their goods and Adventurers killing those same brigands. Both are abuses of power by groups without the authority to do so: brigands have no right to attack travelers; adventurers have no right to dispense justice. The proper response is to defend the weak from the strong: defend the weak travelers from the strong brigands; once the danger has passed, defend the weak brigands form the strong adventurers. The sheriff, or others appointed by the Crown, is the only authority fit to levy charges and exact punishment.

Do you understand what I am advocating? Do you see the fine line between protecting the weak from tyrants and become a tyrant oneself?

Friend Hengin, it is indeed good to hear from you. My plans for Wayside remain indistinct as my business, at present, demands I range the entirety of Fortannis. I stop in Briar Pass, from time to time, and perhaps will see you there anon. I too remember Sergeant Glenbeck and agree with your sentiments. Would that more emulate her self-restraint and long view.


Master Dramthin Hartsboon
Keeper of the Tainted Grove
 
Thank you for the apology. I really apprecia'e it. You have no idea 'ow taxin' it is to 'ave so many voices rail against you when you're only tryin' to stand up for wot you believe in. I don' think I'm a bad person. I just don' want m'friends t'die or be insul'ed, especially not when everyone's goin' on about 'ow those men weren' bad. They tried to kill us all for cryin' out loud.

I'm no'appy about wha' 'appened but I don' think any of us are 'orrid people considerin' wot the bandits might 'ave done 'ad they won the fight. That's the though' that scares me most. I can' even sleep at night anymore without wonderin' oo' else migh' betray me... when the next attack will come... if I'll be ready or if I'll wake up to find the innkeeper's dagger slice my throa' for a few of my 'ard earned coins....

I know I migh' seem a bit mean in my words bu' I just don' know wha' to think anymore. The world is no' nice no mat'er how 'ard we wish for it t'be.
 
Now you are thinking like an adventurer. Be polite, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet.
 
As it seems I have not properly introduced myself, I am Johnathan Darin. Apologies for the confusion, Master Dramthin.

satsukirebel said:
You have no idea 'ow taxin' it is to 'ave so many voices rail against you when you're only tryin' to stand up for wot you believe in. I don' think I'm a bad person. I just don' want m'friends t'die or be insul'ed, especially not when everyone's goin' on about 'ow those men weren' bad. They tried to kill us all for cryin' out loud.
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I will reiterate. I myself have never faulted you for defending yourself. It is what happens after the battle that I'd like to change. And I don't think you are a bad person. I feel that I owe you my life for the way you defended me, and as ungrateful as I seem, I do thank you for that.
satsukirebel said:
The world is no' nice no mat'er how 'ard we wish for it t'be.
Click to expand...
If this is how you feel, I understand your actions, and I feel sorry for you. Instead of wishing, why not work with me to make it nice? We have some power, do we not?
 
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