Character Gender-Bending

Dom

Scout
Gettysburg Staff
Sym of Moria said:
If you are a guy or a gal and want to play a tentacle monster.... go to monster camp.
or be an octopus/squid-kin
 

Mobius

Squire
"Love: This causes the victim to fall deeply in love with the next member of the appropriate sex seen." ARB 119
 

jpariury

Duke
Inaryn said:
Easy answer... ask.
That is specifically not a legitimate solution to "is it a dwarf or a dude with a beard", though. We have a flat rule - no real beard, no playing a dude with a beard. If asking is allowed for determining the sex of a character, why shouldn't it be allowed for determining their race?
 

Robb G

Baron
Mobius said:
"Love: This causes the victim to fall deeply in love with the next member of the appropriate sex seen." ARB 119
I don't have a problem with that. "Appropriate" could mean anything. I don't think this can be considered a rule to confuse things.
 

Inaryn

Knight
jpariury said:
Inaryn said:
Easy answer... ask.
That is specifically not a legitimate solution to "is it a dwarf or a dude with a beard", though. We have a flat rule - no real beard, no playing a dude with a beard. If asking is allowed for determining the sex of a character, why shouldn't it be allowed for determining their race?
Because the rulebook makes stipulations about race due to the fact we have a whole bunch of fantasy races that don't exist in every day life. If these races actually existed, I'm sure the rulebook would word things differently. They don't, so it doesn't.

It's a perfectly acceptable solution to "I'm not sure what gender they are." Just be polite about it and it should all be good.
 
I'm going to go ahead and be the bad guy here and present an angle I think may have been over looked. Publicity.

We're already a fairly fringe subsect with a mixed immage to non LARPers. We try to promote ourselves as a fun, safe time and "family friendly" (18+ chapters non withstanding). From a publicity and game image standpoint, do we want to associate cross dressing with our organization? If someone was on the fence about becomming a new member do you think guys (or girls) in drag would be a plus or a minus in that regard. How would that look like to a parent to a prospective minor (16-17) who's comming to cheak us out before alowing their kid to come to the game?

We can say "if done tastefuly" but realy we can't. Rules have to exist for the "lowest common denominator" meaning that even tho person A might do it well and make it work, we have to be ready for person B who is going to piss someone off, and will use person A as their "but he/she gets to do it." We can't play favorites. Same reason we don't allow potentialy dangerous acrobatics. Yeah you might have 7 years experience, but numb skull 23465 who sees you and trys it will get himself killed. Rules apply to everyone equaly.
--bill

PS: I'd like to add that I personaly don't give a rats one way or the other from a gameplay standpoint. I would be concerned about potential image related concerns tho.
 

Ithra

Newbie
jpariury said:
The rules do distinguish between men and women in two specific instances: Love and Love 9. Both require that I fall in love with someone "of the appropriate sex". I need to know whether or not I should be writing bad poetry to Kondrick when he's the first person I see and he's got on wig, extended eyelashes, and an inch thick of rouge.
thats one thing that would bother me, say if i get hit with a love effect, and the first girl i see is actually a dude playing an IG girl, that would make me really uncomfortable. normally this wouldn't be a problem because i would play a straight character. but with this according to the rules it would have to be That character i fall in love with... :grrr: could there be some rule inplace for this situation so that i can choose to not fall for a dude?
 

Chasmania

Artisan
I second you, Evan. I have no problem having a character pretending to be a girl, but a player playing a character of the opposite sex could create a lot of problems.
 

Inaryn

Knight
My disability doesn't get me out of having to RP charm. Someone's gender as presented shouldn't get you out of having to RP love. That may sound harsh, but it's a really sore spot for me.
 

Robb G

Baron
dreadpiratebill said:
I'm going to go ahead and be the bad guy here and present an angle I think may have been over looked. Publicity.

We're already a fairly fringe subsect with a mixed immage to non LARPers. We try to promote ourselves as a fun, safe time and "family friendly" (18+ chapters non withstanding). From a publicity and game image standpoint, do we want to associate cross dressing with our organization? If someone was on the fence about becomming a new member do you think guys (or girls) in drag would be a plus or a minus in that regard. How would that look like to a parent to a prospective minor (16-17) who's comming to cheak us out before alowing their kid to come to the game?

We can say "if done tastefuly" but realy we can't. Rules have to exist for the "lowest common denominator" meaning that even tho person A might do it well and make it work, we have to be ready for person B who is going to piss someone off, and will use person A as their "but he/she gets to do it." We can't play favorites. Same reason we don't allow potentialy dangerous acrobatics. Yeah you might have 7 years experience, but numb skull 23465 who sees you and trys it will get himself killed. Rules apply to everyone equaly.
--bill

PS: I'd like to add that I personaly don't give a rats one way or the other from a gameplay standpoint. I would be concerned about potential image related concerns tho.
there's already a good deal of cross dressing going on though. I can pick out 10 examples off the top of my head of NPCs doing exactly this for both serious or comedic reasons. and i don't buy the "family friendly" line. that's like saying in order to be family friendly we can't have gay relationships in alliance because a new player on the fence might see two ladies pawing at each other and be offended.
 

Dom

Scout
Gettysburg Staff
Robb Graves said:
hat's like saying in order to be family friendly we can't have gay relationships in alliance because a new player on the fence might see two ladies pawing at each other and be offended.
who's offended :thumbsup:
 

jpariury

Duke
Robb Graves said:
read the rule posted above. it doesn't say opposite sex. it says appropriate sex.
Evan and Chas are saying that they would be uncomfortable if, by the rules, they had to play being Loved to a male who was playing a female, ergo, they feel that players should not be allowed to play the sex opposite what they are. I disagree, but their disagreement has nothing to do with "appropriate sex".
 

Chasmania

Artisan
Actually, I'd be fine with players playing opposite sexes as long as there be something about a player being allowed to opt out of taking a Love from someone of the same OOG sex.
 

Inaryn

Knight
Chasmania said:
Actually, I'd be fine with players playing opposite sexes as long as there be something about a player being allowed to opt out of taking a Love from someone of the same OOG sex.
That's a slippery slope. If special dispensation is given for that rule, then what's to stop me from asking for special dispensation for my disability? How about the next guy, and the next?
 

Jim

Scholar
Robb Graves said:
read the rule posted above. it doesn't say opposite sex. it says appropriate sex.
Robb, they are saying this.

Paul PC is playing a female character, Esther Elf. Evan's character then gets loved and see Esther Elf first. Esther Elf is the appropriate sex, however Paul PC is not the appropriate sex. Evan is saying he is not comfortable role-playing that. My personal thoughts on that would likely get me banned from the board.

My question to Evan would be if he would have that same level of uncomfortable feeling if the player was trans and simply playing a character who matched their gender.

JP: I hear what you are saying but I disagree that the logical conclusion for a rule about sex of characters would have to match the one about racial disguises. Also, at the end of the day transvestism is a fetish and gender identity disorder is well, a psychological disorder. If anything isn't going to be allowed, it should be transvestism.

Dreadpiratebill: Are you suggesting that we force a transgendered player to play characters that match their physical sex and not their gender for publicity's sake? If so, shame on you.
 

Jim

Scholar
Robb Graves said:
and i don't buy the "family friendly" line. that's like saying in order to be family friendly we can't have gay relationships in alliance because a new player on the fence might see two ladies pawing at each other and be offended.
Well said.
 

Wraith

Newbie
Jim said:
Robb Graves said:
read the rule posted above. it doesn't say opposite sex. it says appropriate sex.
Robb, they are saying this.

Paul PC is playing a female character, Esther Elf. Evan's character then gets loved and see Esther Elf first. Esther Elf is the appropriate sex, however Paul PC is not the appropriate sex. Evan is saying he is not comfortable role-playing that. My personal thoughts on that would likely get me banned from the board.

My question to Evan would be if he would have that same level of uncomfortable feeling if the player was trans and simply playing a character who matched their gender.

JP: I hear what you are saying but I disagree that the logical conclusion for a rule about sex of characters would have to match the one about racial disguises. Also, at the end of the day transvestism is a fetish and gender identity disorder is well, a psychological disorder. If anything isn't going to be allowed, it should be transvestism.

Dreadpiratebill: Are you suggesting that we force a transgendered player to play characters that match their physical sex and not their gender for publicity's sake? If so, shame on you.
Situations like this are, idly, why I think the love 9 effect needs to never have been introduced.

Waaaaay too many uncomfortable situations out of it, over the years.
 

Mobius

Squire
I can't think of a single Marshall who would rebuke, let alone Card, a Player for choosing not to act under a Role-Play effect because it made them extremely uncomfortable. If a player said, "I was just hit with Love, the only other person in the room is someone I'm uncomfortable being 'In Love' with, I choose not to play it out" every Marshall I've met would back them up.

Love is almost a stand-alone in that it is a very powerful Role-Play Only effect and has no other In Game Consequences. The closest analogue is Charm, but Charm deals with neither Agape nor Eros and, as such, can be comfortably roleplayed without the deeper connotations associated with Love.
 

Inaryn

Knight
Mobius said:
Love is almost a stand-alone in that it is a very powerful Role-Play Only effect and has no other In Game Consequences. The closest analogue is Charm, but Charm deals with neither Agape nor Eros and, as such, can be comfortably roleplayed without the deeper connotations associated with Love.
Speak for yourself. I have issues with the way Charm is worded and roleplaying it. They stem from my 'unique' way of thinking (my disability.) I do not get a pass for having a disability. Nor should anyone get a pass for Love.
 
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