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RiddickDale

Squire
Moderator
Public Relations Committee
Well said Chazz.

When all is said and done we are all folks who share a common passion. So, we ABSOLUTELY need a place to go nuts and talk about it with no controls. Chazz (with the support of others) is suggesting that we put controls on a few places and make them more complimentary to Alliance LARP's vision.

The consistent infighting and misrepresentation on the rules forum specifically is not about faith or trust. Simple questions often ramble into multiple pages of commentary which often include INCORRECT answers. Not just misinterpreted information. Straight up WRONG answers. From people who WROTE the book. In the very forums where our new players often go to learn about what this game is about they can find themselves lost.

If order for our games to survive we need a steady stream of new players. How can we get that when our boards don't help?

Perhaps along with the addition of heavy moderation we could have the forums reorganized to allow for some clearly marked "heavily moderated discussion areas" and several others that are clearly labeled as "free for alls" (they can even be for some of the same topics like rules etc). There is precedence for that type of thing all over the internet so we would not be breaking new ground here.

The bottom line here guys: If you are pointedly fighting this type of action you are working AGAINST the game as a whole.

Stephen
 
I suppose it comes down to the intended purpose of the board. Is the purpose of this board to be a place for people to spout off at the mouth about everything that pops into their heads, or is it here to facilitate conversation and knowledge regarding the game in effort to help the game grow and become more stable and "alliance-like"?

I'm guessing it's the latter and not the former. If it's the former, then all the more reason to abandon this board and seek out private boards where you can converse with like minded individuals, which (as others have pointed out) tends to serve to alienate chapters from the alliance rather than bring them together as a group.

In order to serve the latter purpose, it is generally best to conduct yourself in a manner befitting a place of great respect. If we were all over at Mike's house (assuming his house were big enough to hold us all), do you think it would be ok to speak as some have on this board and treat each-other as some have, or do you think that people would generally be polite, jovial and/or quiet and observational?

The anonymity of this place is not an excuse to check your manners at the door and go off on people in a manner befitting a rowdy biker bar.

As I said before, I think it is the domain of the ownership and staffers from every chapter to set the example by conducting themselves in the most upright and cordial way possible. After having set that example (as some have done, but others have not) then it would be appropriate to designate some "bouncers" to keep the peace and generally encourage others to abide by the overall tone set by the leadership. If there are those who would prefer not to go with the flow and enjoy the space they have here, then those people can be pulled aside and spoken to about their disruptive behavior, or (in more severe cases) be escorted to the door and flung into the proverbial street as a drunkard.

It's really up to the leadership to set the tone, and appoint enforcers to help deal with undesirable behavior.
 
yup agreed.
 

Jevedor

Fighter
Asheville Staff
meltedwing said:
I suppose it comes down to the intended purpose of the board. Is the purpose of this board to be a place for people to spout off at the mouth about everything that pops into their heads, or is it here to facilitate conversation and knowledge regarding the game in effort to help the game grow and become more stable and "alliance-like"?
I think in a lot of ways the message board as a whole leans to facilitate both these purposes.... the problem is, there is no really guide as to where it is and where it is not appropriate to do so. Not to say that people don't need to keep propriety in mind and treat each other with respect, but more to the point that some boards (specifically the rules board) need to be kept to a much higher esteem. Obviously people are going to want to debate rules and discuss and ramble (which is all well and good).. but it should be brought to a general discussion rules board.

perhaps if we broke rules into 3 segments instead of the current 2 (the main and ARC).... the 3 would be

ARC
A main rules thread for people to ask questions and have Marshals, GMs, CS, and Owners answer
and a Free Discussion of Rules for all the other banter...

if people start getting off topic or rambling in the Main rules thread a moderator may simply move the thread into the Rules Free Discussion area, while notifying the OP...

In this way we keep the main rules thread clean and hopefully professional.
 

Robb G

Baron
i don't see why you can't just do that now using the general discussion board as the place to talk about whatever regarding alliance larp (including rules), and just moderate the existing rules and arc section
 
RiddickDale said:
The bottom line here guys: If you are pointedly fighting this type of action you are working AGAINST the game as a whole.

Stephen
I have mixed feelings about this thread, partially because it feels very reactionary, and in my experience, in all facets of life, reactionary decisions rarely lead to good implementation, no matter how reasonable the ideas are.

That said, I think the quote above actually belongs as an example of what Chazz has been saying. It is remarkably antagonistic. In one statement, Stephen says that there is only one correct opinion on this discussion and anyone who disagrees is harming the organization. That kind of rhetoric is harmful and reminiscent of McCarthyism or, more recently, the partisan politics in the U.S.

Opinions welcome. Please let them be welcome. Otherwise, this thread simply becomes an example of what it is trying to prove. And, it is truly ironic if the example is made by those who are actively supporting the thread.

-MS
 

Jevedor

Fighter
Asheville Staff
Robb Graves said:
i don't see why you can't just do that now using the general discussion board as the place to talk about whatever regarding alliance larp (including rules), and just moderate the existing rules and arc section
You most certainly could, and many people do. But it is still a matter of organization, and if a person is looking to talk "generally" about rules they would be more likely to go to a Rule section than a General section. As it stands right now general discussion encompasses much more than rules... it can be used for discussion on everything from Rules to Larp trends to the outcome of the super bowl and its impact on the weather... If you want to help clean things up and better communicate where things go and what things should be talked about where... organization of such things is the first step in that process.

EDIT:

for the record I have used a number of forums and maybe I just tend to find and like more structured forums... I am not trying to be biased, and I am not saying that using one board is wrong. I just think it could be broken into clearer parts.
 

James Trotta

Spellsword
Diversity Committee
I am confused. Is it their posts that you think give Lehigh Valley a bad name? Is it the slogan? Is it putting the slogan in the signature?

And do you really think a new player reading a Balsome Bros (gilwing or octaine) post will think, "crap I better not go to Lehigh Valley or those guys are gonna call me names?" Cause that's what I'm reading here but none of it makes any sense to me.

Chazz said:
--Dave and Mike Balsome, Lehigh Valley LARP Logistics "JOURNEY INTO ADVENTURE" If you two think that ending your posts like this doesn't lead to bad representation of your chapter, you are dead wrong. I know I will certainly reconsider making such a journey if this is the sort of intolerance and name calling that this adventure will lead me to. And I know these guys. They are in fact players who have supported this game since its infancy. Capable of entertaining me better than 90% of anyone I've come across.
I was also thinking something similar to what Mike said below. Chazz said he was starting this thread because there was a lack of professionalism on this board. Saying that there's a chapter you'd never visit because you might get called names seems pretty unprofessional to me. Is this an ironic example of why we need moderators to delete all the unprofessional crap people post? And is it ironic that this thread is devolving into more and more aggressive, maybe even insulting, posts?

mikestrauss said:
Opinions welcome. Please let them be welcome. Otherwise, this thread simply becomes an example of what it is trying to prove. And, it is truly ironic if the example is made by those who are actively supporting the thread.

-MS
Is this thread attracting new players or scaring them away?
 
James Trotta said:
... is it ironic that this thread is devolving into more and more aggressive, maybe even insulting, posts?
Yes, it's very ironic. Now shut up, I'm posting here. ;)
Gilwing said:
obcidian_bandit said:
Gilwing said:
So we don't have enough faith and trust in our players?
Nope.
This is sad coming from a GM. If this is a joke then its funny...especially coming from a GM.
I was hoping that this would be taken as intended contextually (in the original post, it was followed immediately by a comment on the Tag system). My point was that our rules system implies that we don't trust our players, not that, as a whole, we actually don't trust our players. (Hence the comment about the Tag system.)
The 'heavily edited for generality' Chazz said:
(..) If you (...) think that ending your posts like this doesn't lead to [any sort of] representation of your chapter, you are dead wrong. (...)
And here in your posts are the first things people read when they want to know more. When they want to know who plays.
How you decide to post will decide what they find out.
This is actually a big part of the reason I don't sign my posts. I feel that in general, most people (including me) will make their chapter look worse more often then they make it look good. Now, I don't really mean to say that most posts are bad or look bad individually. What I mean is, you don't remember the 100 posts that are average, or even much of the 10 posts that are really good. You do remember the single post that pissed you off, even if it's one in a thousand. What have I got? Like 500 posts? I bet I've pissed off more than my share of that thousand, and I assume that most of my posts fly under the radar completely. I think most people are the same way.

Chazz said:
Here is a few real world examples of that taken from replies within this post. Though I got moderated for doing this last time, it is my sincere hope that its not taken as calling of people out but as trying to shed light on the reality of what you are doing. (...)
--Obcidian_bandit, rarely if ever signs his post. It is my hope that its for similar reasons that I keep mine short. He does make, what I consider, some really quality points. However, without at least something to go on I can only assume he is not a GM but just a Black Bandit. Posting anonymously prevents me from visiting the boards he speaks of to compare and see just what he is talking about. Which I would in fact love to do.
So I got called out for this a little while ago, but (see above) I generally don't like to sign my posts. Since it came up politely:
Howdy. I'm Matt O.ostman. I've been the GM of Seattle for the last few years and am the newest addition to the Alliance Seattle Plot team. About 8 years ago I was Head of Plot in Nero Oregon. I don't even know how long I've been a rules marshal in OR and Seattle. I've been playing since 1998. I've got a highbie Gypsy Celestial caster (Kerjal), a upper level Biata Fighter (Iftikhaar), and a midbie Fox Scavenger Rogue (Roger). That's me on page 88, 82, and 83. Mike calls me Michael on page 3 (which is weird because it's my middle name and I never told him that...) Today's my birthday, and posting those timelines made me feel old, thankyouverymuch. :p
 
So I get to me 9 chapters look bad whenever I post something that people remember as "upsetting"? :D

Sorry I realize that's just a frivolous comment. But do think we should be careful about naming specific people in this discusion. We don't want this to devolve into name calling. But lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater here. I think many people have agreed here that the idea of having some more structured parts for these boards would be helpful. Ultimately its up to the powers that be to actually do something about it. :) But it sounds like there are certainly a good number of people who would be willing to invest significant time and effort to make something helpful happen.
 

Chazz

Artisan
Cool, thanks for that Matt. And thank you even more for not reading into some presumed affront. Please be assured that I meant none. I was and am honestly curious. As I stated, I sign the way I do for the same reasons. And on a side note; Hippo, Birdie, two Ewes.

Just to reciprocate. Hi, I am Chazz. 10 year player and currently hold the title of "Chazz" in CT. Just a go to guy who fills in any and all gaps there. I was the former AGM at HQ for just shy of 2 years. I am a marshal at HQ and CT and have done monster desk as well as weapon, rules and ritual marshaled for the rest of the chapters I've played in and for last National event. You can see my ugly mug on the description of Dwarves in the Rulebook and on the cover (though with the strap showing as it does I am hesitant to point to it).

This may well be worth noting. If there were some place to make introductions it may serve to remove some of the anonymity that is responsible for some misleading thoughts people may have. A culling of the epeen, for want of a better term, if you know what I mean. That is seriously off topic though. Or is it?

--Chazz
 

Robb G

Baron
i feel left out. I'm robb. 2 b's. seriously. regardless of how many times Dreamingfurther only says i have 1 b. i have 2. it's right there in my user name. wtf? i do logistics. :( i'm an alcoholic. yes i think the two are related.
 
His name is Rob...

don't believe him...
 

Gilwing

Baron
Alliance Logistics
Chazz said:
--Dave and Mike Balsome, Lehigh Valley LARP Logistics "JOURNEY INTO ADVENTURE" If you two think that ending your posts like this doesn't lead to bad representation of your chapter, you are dead wrong. I know I will certainly reconsider making such a journey if this is the sort of intolerance and name calling that this adventure will lead me to. And I know these guys. They are in fact players who have supported this game since its infancy. Capable of entertaining me better than 90% of anyone I've come across.
--Chazz
Man if we entertain you here imagine what we can do as plot/staff members :)
 

Octaine

Artisan
Gilwing said:
Chazz said:
--Dave and Mike Balsome, Lehigh Valley LARP Logistics "JOURNEY INTO ADVENTURE" If you two think that ending your posts like this doesn't lead to bad representation of your chapter, you are dead wrong. I know I will certainly reconsider making such a journey if this is the sort of intolerance and name calling that this adventure will lead me to. And I know these guys. They are in fact players who have supported this game since its infancy. Capable of entertaining me better than 90% of anyone I've come across.
--Chazz
Man if we entertain you here imagine what we can do as plot/staff members :)
I will work on more material for Chazz and everyone else to enjoy. :D :D
 

Ondreij

Scout
Chazz said:
..clip...
Just to reciprocate. Hi, I am Chazz. 10 year player and currently hold the title of "Chazz" in CT. Just a go to guy who fills in any and all gaps there. I was the former AGM at HQ for just shy of 2 years. I am a marshal at HQ and CT and have done monster desk as well as weapon, ...clip...That is seriously off topic though. Or is it?

--Chazz
And Chazz is one of the most awesome players IG and OOG (I love chatting with you over at the smokers' guild, man) who, as an NPC, is fair to all players both new and seasoned, both high skilled and not-so-high skilled. You keep being awesome. My original thought when I saw the start of this post was "Man! Someone misinterpreted something Chazz said and it's probable that they just don't know Chazz 'cause that man doesn't have a mean bone in his body and is as nice as they come -- even if he can be highly charged, deeply involved, and very intense, 'cause that's one of the things that rings my respect to him.

Now, back to the main topic of this thread:

I haven't finished reading all of the posts in this thread, but so far as I have read no one has mentioned that little red explamation point in the triangle that is at the top of every post. Does anyone ever try to use that instead of raising heck in a reply, or instead of complaining through an email or a PM? If I do report a post (that's what that little symbol is supposed to be for) I wonder who reads the reports, and what kinds of things happen after a post is reported, and who is ultimately responsible for dealing with reported posts.

If we use that mechanism for managing OUR forum with the assistance of the "moderation staff" I think we can make things work better here. I don't think we need to make it more complicated than using the tools we already have to develop a stronger and more friendly and supportive culture.

Can the managers of this board tell us what happens when a post is reported, and who are the people who deal with those reports?

We can post and over time modify rules posted at the top of each section regarding what kinds of things are allowed with a section.

We all should know how to follow rules -- we play a rules-based game together. This is not too different.

Thank you, everyone.
 
Ondreij,

I agree with you, but in addition to the stick (triangle/exclamation point thing). It's important to use the carrot as well (setting a good example from the top).

I also completely agree that it would be helpful to have an admin explain how those reports are being handled right now.

I think we can generally all agree that there have been some pretty "off" posts by people that needed to be reported and handled. Some of those posts were even from staffers and owners. We need to know that if we report a staffer or an owner, that we aren't the one who is going to get the stick.

----

Side note, I am Mark Walker. I generally don't sign my posts out of sheer lack of interest to do so. I feel my ideas should stand on their own merit and not be lifted up or dragged down by who I am in the eyes of the reader.
 
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