Gypsy accents
- Thread starter jpariury
- Start date
I'm new to the game so I may not be qualified to criticize, but play a gypsy and here's my take on it.
As far as the terms "Gypsy" and "Barbarian" are concerned, I see no reason to complain about how they're used. The game itself isn't making any judgement calls on the real life groups that these ideas stemmed from. There may be racism in-game, but that's for the sake of story, and is only focused on the gypsies/barbarians in-game. As a whole the concepts are widely appreciated, and OoG they are a valued part of the game. Thus I see no need to change them based on the feelings of real-life counterparts, as really the only way they were involved was to serve as inspiration, and the two races are a kind of collective mental property of the Alliance players and staff as a whole.
As for the idea of making them humans with certain racials, sure. I don't need to be considered a gypsy on my character card to have fun with Itzack. It's the flavor of the character, not the crunch, that matters. The only way I've seen it really matter is in a recent battle with Pantherghasts, where "Shun all non-<insert race here>" was called. When it came to the humans, there was a huge crowd of death able to zerg rush their ghast. When it came to the gypsies, there were two mages and myself, an archer. Not complaining, but that's really the only bit of crunch I can see it effecting. Though if we're going to do this, I'd suggest diversifying the human racials and giving them a few more backgrounds to choose from.
Lastly, on the original topic, I think other races having accents are fine. Itzack has a wylderkin rai who speaks in a british accent, and knows an... elf, I think... Who speaks in a southern drawl. Plus scottish dwarfs are amazing. I read the spirit of the rule as Gypsies have these certain cultural traits. It's the combination that makes them Gypsies, not the individual parts.
That's my two copper.
Edited: 2:04 pst Oct 14th.
As far as the terms "Gypsy" and "Barbarian" are concerned, I see no reason to complain about how they're used. The game itself isn't making any judgement calls on the real life groups that these ideas stemmed from. There may be racism in-game, but that's for the sake of story, and is only focused on the gypsies/barbarians in-game. As a whole the concepts are widely appreciated, and OoG they are a valued part of the game. Thus I see no need to change them based on the feelings of real-life counterparts, as really the only way they were involved was to serve as inspiration, and the two races are a kind of collective mental property of the Alliance players and staff as a whole.
As for the idea of making them humans with certain racials, sure. I don't need to be considered a gypsy on my character card to have fun with Itzack. It's the flavor of the character, not the crunch, that matters. The only way I've seen it really matter is in a recent battle with Pantherghasts, where "Shun all non-<insert race here>" was called. When it came to the humans, there was a huge crowd of death able to zerg rush their ghast. When it came to the gypsies, there were two mages and myself, an archer. Not complaining, but that's really the only bit of crunch I can see it effecting. Though if we're going to do this, I'd suggest diversifying the human racials and giving them a few more backgrounds to choose from.
Lastly, on the original topic, I think other races having accents are fine. Itzack has a wylderkin rai who speaks in a british accent, and knows an... elf, I think... Who speaks in a southern drawl. Plus scottish dwarfs are amazing. I read the spirit of the rule as Gypsies have these certain cultural traits. It's the combination that makes them Gypsies, not the individual parts.
That's my two copper.
Edited: 2:04 pst Oct 14th.
markusdark
Knight
The 3rd Edition rulebooks (c) 1990,1991 says "Gypsies are not technically a race, but instead are a group of wandering human nomads who have specific abilities."
p.richard
Scholar
I hate to bump a post but I was curious about a gypsy concept as it might violate everything that has been discussed here.
The concept is a gypsy that is heavily into Voodoo or "dark magic" if you will. The accent used would be that of the deep south, Creole, Haitian or something similar. Finally the gypsy himself would wear either a skull mask, a skull paint job, or something of the like. As for his clothing, it is typically dark colors as he follows sort of a darker path. Why did I make him a gypsy? Because the Gypsy curse REALLY makes the Voodoo idea POP!
So far I am seeing the following issues with the concept:
1) Would Creole or Haitian accents be against the rules for a gypsy?
2) Painting on a skull or wearing a skull mask would violate the "Can't look like other races" policy (the race in question being Undead of course), right?
3) Dark colors, again, are against the law for gypsies... which I personally think is silly lol, but eh. Is this to say that NO gypsy is allowed to wear Non-Odd clothing, ever? If I was to walk into HQ like this...
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2 ... =1&theater
would the local runners stop me and say "NO! GO CHANGE! OR DON'T PLAY THIS CHARACTER!"
Just curious
Paul Iverson
The concept is a gypsy that is heavily into Voodoo or "dark magic" if you will. The accent used would be that of the deep south, Creole, Haitian or something similar. Finally the gypsy himself would wear either a skull mask, a skull paint job, or something of the like. As for his clothing, it is typically dark colors as he follows sort of a darker path. Why did I make him a gypsy? Because the Gypsy curse REALLY makes the Voodoo idea POP!
So far I am seeing the following issues with the concept:
1) Would Creole or Haitian accents be against the rules for a gypsy?
2) Painting on a skull or wearing a skull mask would violate the "Can't look like other races" policy (the race in question being Undead of course), right?
3) Dark colors, again, are against the law for gypsies... which I personally think is silly lol, but eh. Is this to say that NO gypsy is allowed to wear Non-Odd clothing, ever? If I was to walk into HQ like this...
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2 ... =1&theater
would the local runners stop me and say "NO! GO CHANGE! OR DON'T PLAY THIS CHARACTER!"
Just curious
Paul Iverson
Ithra
Newbie
Dom said:
that or you could go wilderkin and be an animal who in some cultures is considered a bad omen (like a raven, or an owl) so you can have the gypsy curse that way
if you arn't colorful and have an accent different then most then out of game their would be NO way anyone could tell that your a gypsy out of game, and from my understanding masks are practically forbiddin because their are many races that use masks as IG phys rep for what you characters fave actually looks like. the only masks allowed are over the top masqurade masks. and if you had a skull face you WOULD be thought to be an undead.
p.richard
Scholar
Bleh, gypsies are so different in Alliance. Lol. In Mythic Realms (the LARP I am involved in here in Utah) Gypsies have tattoos on their hands, given to them at birth. They still speak in a wide variety of accents but they can wear whatever they want. Kind of a cool concept how the "tattoos" came to be. They used to be brandings given to them by local law enforcers (sort of like how the Jews had to put the star of David on all their clothing during the Holocaust). However, instead of thinking that the mark was some sort of "sin" or whatever, they embraced it and now "brand" all their kin with their house or family symbol.
Bleh, sorry, I got off the track there.
But really? I couldn't paint a skull face on myself in the traditional Voodoo fashion without being called undead? The costuming I could get around pretty easily. Some reds mixed in with dark blue would be fine for the concept. But the voodoo skull... man... that is almost a deal breaker! Lol
Paul
Bleh, sorry, I got off the track there.
But really? I couldn't paint a skull face on myself in the traditional Voodoo fashion without being called undead? The costuming I could get around pretty easily. Some reds mixed in with dark blue would be fine for the concept. But the voodoo skull... man... that is almost a deal breaker! Lol
Paul
Ithra
Newbie
p.richard said:
well because face paint like that is what many NPCs do for undead, plus what your discribing is VERY un gypsy like for are game, and dark colors would still not work it has to be bright colors.
although maybe if you did a barbarian you could make it work, and for the roleplay of liking dark magic it could be he has an interest and maybe even casts celestial magic, since barbarians have a strong dislike for celestial. (and you could make a story of being the outcast of your tribe) if you had good costuming with alot of fur people would realize its a barbarion, and with the face paint only do the white while still having your own skin color show as well. but you would have to check with the local chapter to see if they allow it, most wouldn't i'm guessing, some people would just take you as being an undead barbarian. and you may not be allowed to be the one barbarian who likes and casts celestial either....
if i may say so it would be best to scrap the idea. it doesn't work in all kinds of ways!
Dom
Scout
"Gypsies must wear loud colorful clothes and must speak in an appropriate accent"
As for the skull makeup. You can't have it for the same reason a dwarf can't shave and a gypsie can't have a long flowing beard
I still say wilderkin is the way to go. It allows for far more creativity and you can still have the gypsie curse plus any other racial and scenting.
As for the skull makeup. You can't have it for the same reason a dwarf can't shave and a gypsie can't have a long flowing beard
I still say wilderkin is the way to go. It allows for far more creativity and you can still have the gypsie curse plus any other racial and scenting.
One can wear loud, gypsy-ish clothes while still having a dark overall theme or demeanor. The image I have in my head is spectacular for such a concept, and wouldn't be too hard to pull off at all.Dom said:
Also, the ability to pick any two racials does not always make Wylderkin the right option. It's the character concept that's the important part, and his proposed character is more certainly a Gypsy. I personally prefer to see people play characters for their character, not for their statistics.
p.richard
Scholar
Voodoo is much different in my eyes it would seem. It is a practice that is shunned from normal society. Much like Gypsies are in the world Alliance has created. The concept is a bit "Shamanistic" I will admit, especially since Voodoo in history use "fetishes" of power (Voodoo doll for instance) and very odd rituals to get their things done. Some would speculate that they make deals with otherworldly beings; bartering their eternal spirits and "souls" to gain power.
After looking over my resources I have learned that in the real world, Voodoo was a sin in the eyes of Catholics, even though the majority of Haitians, African Americans and West Africans would make use of both practices. When they were found out by the land owners of authorties, the Catholics would shun them, again, much like the characters in Alliance LARP are in theory suppose to shun Gypsies. Voodoo in my mind (a person who has studied both 'Gypsy Culture' and 'Voodoo Culture') FLARES Gypsy. But the concept is more "dark" than it is "colorful". Perhaps posting some character concepts would help in the matter a bit?
After looking over my resources I have learned that in the real world, Voodoo was a sin in the eyes of Catholics, even though the majority of Haitians, African Americans and West Africans would make use of both practices. When they were found out by the land owners of authorties, the Catholics would shun them, again, much like the characters in Alliance LARP are in theory suppose to shun Gypsies. Voodoo in my mind (a person who has studied both 'Gypsy Culture' and 'Voodoo Culture') FLARES Gypsy. But the concept is more "dark" than it is "colorful". Perhaps posting some character concepts would help in the matter a bit?
jpariury
Duke
That's about how much makeup I often see for a number of chapters. I believe it would simply be confusing, particularly for newer players and npcs. There should be a distinct difference between a skeleton and a guy in skeleton makeup, and I don't see a clean way to do it.Mobius said:
p.richard
Scholar
I guess it would depend on the amount of realism the chapter or LARP is into. From what I remember, Alliance (then NERO Alliance) was all about realism. I was told many times that I could only do stuff if I could phys rep it. By this statement...
...it sounds like you guys don't go all out like I remember. Then again, I see videos online in which people are dressed up as "gray dragon looking things" running around killing each other. I also see beautiful elf makeup and NPCs wearing masks to represent their creatures whether it is skeletons, zombies, unicorns or whatever. What I am thinking is something along the lines of...
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?id=10 ... =1&theater
...without the jaw makeup. (I think this picture is viewable by everyone. Lets hope so you can see my vision. Lol) With this makeup, the majority of my face is still "human tone" with the exception of a partial skull. I wouldn't use black to highlight my cheeks, eyes and forehead like traditional skeleton makeup. I wouldn't be running around in skeleton tabards or a "skeleton suit" but traditional (or perhaps non traditional yet exceptable) Gypsy clothing.
And in response to the "It will confuse people" comment... would it really? A simple: "Paul, what do I see" with a "Gypsy as I appear" as a reply would pretty much solve that situation pretty well. I guess the only way to test this would be by actually doing it. If a chapter denies the costume then you simply don't wear it. *shrugs*
...it sounds like you guys don't go all out like I remember. Then again, I see videos online in which people are dressed up as "gray dragon looking things" running around killing each other. I also see beautiful elf makeup and NPCs wearing masks to represent their creatures whether it is skeletons, zombies, unicorns or whatever. What I am thinking is something along the lines of...
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?id=10 ... =1&theater
...without the jaw makeup. (I think this picture is viewable by everyone. Lets hope so you can see my vision. Lol) With this makeup, the majority of my face is still "human tone" with the exception of a partial skull. I wouldn't use black to highlight my cheeks, eyes and forehead like traditional skeleton makeup. I wouldn't be running around in skeleton tabards or a "skeleton suit" but traditional (or perhaps non traditional yet exceptable) Gypsy clothing.
And in response to the "It will confuse people" comment... would it really? A simple: "Paul, what do I see" with a "Gypsy as I appear" as a reply would pretty much solve that situation pretty well. I guess the only way to test this would be by actually doing it. If a chapter denies the costume then you simply don't wear it. *shrugs*
p.richard
Scholar
Well only one way to tell. If people want to mess with a gypsy and the entire gypsy nation, so be it! lol ;-)
On one hand, I totally understand where you are coming from, but on the otherhand, I think you are taking it out of hand. A simple in game explaination and backstory and suddenly (potentially) you have an awesome character that people will remember as "The Voodoo man!" Again, in my eyes, it would need to be tried before denied. And again, if it isn't obvious when a skeleton, zombie or undead creature comes into the town, perhaps it should be? It is sounding like people are taking the "easy way out" on their monsters when they should be (and I quote the website for Alliance here) "...the cream of the crop of LARP games." and "...We have removed games from the Alliance who were not performing up to our standards, and have even turned down NERO International games that wanted to join us but were not willing to meet our requirements. And because of this, our reputation for providing quality games is very good."
It begs the question: What are Alliance's standards if, by JPs statement earlier in this post, "That's about how much makeup I often see for a number of chapters." I don't want to be looked at as a villian here but I am curious if all Chapters do the "half assed" makeup jobs or if only certain ones do? Where is the quality; the "cream of the crop" in that?
(Also, my words are coming off a bit harsh. It is not my intent. I am merely making an observation!
)
On one hand, I totally understand where you are coming from, but on the otherhand, I think you are taking it out of hand. A simple in game explaination and backstory and suddenly (potentially) you have an awesome character that people will remember as "The Voodoo man!" Again, in my eyes, it would need to be tried before denied. And again, if it isn't obvious when a skeleton, zombie or undead creature comes into the town, perhaps it should be? It is sounding like people are taking the "easy way out" on their monsters when they should be (and I quote the website for Alliance here) "...the cream of the crop of LARP games." and "...We have removed games from the Alliance who were not performing up to our standards, and have even turned down NERO International games that wanted to join us but were not willing to meet our requirements. And because of this, our reputation for providing quality games is very good."
It begs the question: What are Alliance's standards if, by JPs statement earlier in this post, "That's about how much makeup I often see for a number of chapters." I don't want to be looked at as a villian here but I am curious if all Chapters do the "half assed" makeup jobs or if only certain ones do? Where is the quality; the "cream of the crop" in that?
(Also, my words are coming off a bit harsh. It is not my intent. I am merely making an observation!
)