Gypsy accents

[Robb G]

Why do we have an Alliance Rules Committee?

to deal with rules clarifications, rule book writing, and addendums

Since the chapters themselves are the end of the proverbial rules road wouldn't it be better to not waste these peoples' time with a bunch of pestering questions?

the chapters are not. there's a difference between an LCO plot policy and a chapter making its own rules up on the fly constantly.

Why have a central communication hub at all?

to deal with the above issue and to share information between chapters to create a more cohesive alliance.

Is this an alliance or a loose network of people who are all running the same game?

what if my definition of an alliance is "a loose network of people who are all running the same game"

Isn't it a bit disingenuous to sell this to our players as a national game if it isn't being run in a consistent manner?

i don't believe so. nor do i believe in these grave inconsistencies you seem to be alluding to. There are players who visit our chapter and play 5 others consistently each year.... and they love all of them for their own reasons.... that's incredible if you ask me.

There has to be a middle ground somewhere that emphasizes chapter individuality without opening up the rules to wholesale retrofit by the plot committees.

show me a chapter that has completely re-written the rules to a wholesale retrofit rather than minor tweaking in order to tell a different story. where is the outcry from players condemning X chapter for the blatant bastardizeation of the rules?

 

[Mike Ventrella]

The key here is that there are gray areas. The problem is that it's sometimes hard to tell when you've gone too far.

I would prefer it if we were more of an Alliance, of course. I'd like all gypsies to talk with the same accent no matter where you go, and for all biata to be so harmed by celestial magic that they would never enter a Ward voluntarily. But not every chapter sees it the exact same way I do.

But sometimes as I said they do go overboard, and then yes, I have to crack down. ("No, you cannot have biata being descended from harpaes instead of gryphons!") Given how many chapters there are and how many years this has been running, it really hasn't happened that often.

There are certainly times when I would like to be a dictator and tell every chapter exactly how they should do things, but then again there are other times where chapters come up with absolutely wonderful ideas that they never would have developed had I just said "Here is the game, here are the rules, you have no say in it."

So we take the good with the bad. I express my opinion here a lot, but I don't always get my way. And neither does anyone else!

 

[Shandar]

Since the chapters themselves are the end of the proverbial rules road wouldn't it be better to not waste these peoples' time with a bunch of pestering questions?

the chapters are not. there's a difference between an LCO plot policy and a chapter making its own rules up on the fly constantly.

Is there? You seemed to indicate above that pretty much nothing is sacrosanct when there's a plot reason for changing it.

In any case, I provided some pretty specific examples of "things that are ok" vs "things that are not ok" above, and I can't, for the life of me, tell the difference.

 

[Shandar]

Thank you, Mike. I appreciate the perspective.

 

[Alavatar]

At what point is an accent not an accent?

 

[Vazhi]

At what point is an accent not an accent?

I think in the context of this discussion it'd make sense to say it's not an accent when you speak that way normally. No one objected to the idea that people shouldn't be forced to not talk like themselves.

 

[Robb G]

At what point is an accent not an accent?

I think in the context of this discussion it'd make sense to say it's not an accent when you speak that way normally. No one objected to the idea that people shouldn't be forced to not talk like themselves.

well.... what happens in JP's fictional chapter when a person who has the OOG accent of the IG gypsy race? does his chapter force him to speak diffrently or play a gypsy only?

 

[Vazhi]

I'd like all gypsies to talk with the same accent no matter where you go

Yeah, but which Gypsies? Which dialect? There's Romani, Dom, Lom, Kowli, Pikey, Romanichal, Yeniche, Reisende, Banjara... etc. Each of these being either distinct groups referred to as gypsy or sub-groups of others mentioned. If there were an official way to do the accent then would gypsy curses be blown if not done in the correct accent? Will we have a dialect marshal? The problem with restriction is where to draw the line. The benefit of how it seems to be right now is that people don't usually have to think that hard to make common sense choices. The problem is always going to be the people that are trying to just do something they know they shouldn't be getting away with and expect to have no repercussions. Those people are usually easy enough to spot and can be talked to.

I wonder... if your character is a mute, can you curse people using sign language? How does one sign with an accent...

Sorry... tangent. I'm on 3 hours sleep and worked 13 hours today. On that note I think I'll stop whacking the wasp nest and leave this topic alone. We're going in circles now. ;P

 

[Druk]

well.... what happens in JP's fictional chapter when a person who has the OOG accent of the IG gypsy race? does his chapter force him to speak diffrently or play a gypsy only?

Forcible race change into a gerbil-kin.

 

[Alavatar]

At what point is an accent not an accent?

I think in the context of this discussion it'd make sense to say it's not an accent when you speak that way normally. No one objected to the idea that people shouldn't be forced to not talk like themselves.

well.... what happens in JP's fictional chapter when a person who has the OOG accent of the IG gypsy race? does his chapter force him to speak diffrently or play a gypsy only?

Or, what if a person chooses a NY-style accent for their gypsy and visits a chapter in NY? Or an Irish accent for their gypsy and a chapter is opened in Ireland which the player travels to?

My point is: for the gypsy requirement of "must have an appropriate accent", does the accent just have to be different from the player's normal speech pattern in order to be considered an "accent"?

P.S. I'm just poking fun at this subject. I personally don't care that much and think that the gypsy race should just be *encouraged* to have an accent and *required* to have some physically distingishing characteristic that cannot be easily duplicated by another race. (i.e. flashy clothes shouldn't be that *required* characteristic). Such a characteristic could be a simple mark on the face, like a tattoo specific to a tribe, or something like that.

 

[Ondreij]

I'd like all gypsies to talk with the same accent no matter where you go

Yeah, but which Gypsies? Which dialect? There's Romani, Dom, Lom, Kowli, Pikey, Romanichal, Yeniche, Reisende, Banjara... etc. Each of these being either distinct groups referred to as gypsy or sub-groups of others mentioned. If there were an official way to do the accent then would gypsy curses be blown if not done in the correct accent? Will we have a dialect marshal? The problem with restriction is where to draw the line. The benefit of how it seems to be right now is that people don't usually have to think that hard to make common sense choices. The problem is always going to be the people that are trying to just do something they know they shouldn't be getting away with and expect to have no repercussions. Those people are usually easy enough to spot and can be talked to.

I wonder... if your character is a mute, can you curse people using sign language? How does one sign with an accent...

Sorry... tangent. I'm on 3 hours sleep and worked 13 hours today. On that note I think I'll stop whacking the wasp nest and leave this topic alone. We're going in circles now. ;P

Did you go to STF University? :lol:

 

[Vazhi]

Did you go to STF University? :lol:

I'm not sure exactly what you're implying here... but I guess I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that was a friendly jest.

Lawl.

 

[Ondreij]

Did you go to STF University? :lol:

I'm not sure exactly what you're implying here... but I guess I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that was a friendly jest.

Lawl.

It's not funny if I have to E X P L A I N it.

 

[Vazhi]

It's not funny if I have to E X P L A I N it.[/quote]

I know what STF University is... and I could have chosen to take offense. :roll: But, whatever. I'm leaving it alone now.

 

[Shandar]

Yeah, but which Gypsies? Which dialect? There's Romani, Dom, Lom, Kowli, Pikey, Romanichal, Yeniche, Reisende, Banjara... etc. Each of these being either distinct groups referred to as gypsy or sub-groups of others mentioned.

Here on Earth, perhaps, but do they all exist on Fortannis?

I think the root of the problem is that Earth cultures are being conflated with Fortannis races, which is not the best of comparisons.

 

[Vazhi]

Yeah, but which Gypsies? Which dialect? There's Romani, Dom, Lom, Kowli, Pikey, Romanichal, Yeniche, Reisende, Banjara... etc. Each of these being either distinct groups referred to as gypsy or sub-groups of others mentioned.

Here on Earth, perhaps, but do they all exist on Fortannis?

I think the root of the problem is that Earth cultures are being conflated with Fortannis races, which is not the best of comparisons.

By that same arguement there shouldn't be a race based on a real life culture. Problem with the arguement is there are plenty of instances of gypsy in fantasy settings that are likewise diverse.

I disagree with that being the root of the problem. The real root of the problem is that there aren't enough other ways to distinguish Gypsy from other races. Which accent is being used wouldn't be an issue at all if you could know just by looking at someone. Actually, you usually can but it can still cause confusion if a human accidentally dresses a little too flashy. I wasn't going to add more to the conversation, but now that you mention it addressing the accent isn't really attacking the source of the problem.

...the gypsy race should just be *encouraged* to have an accent and *required* to have some physically distingishing characteristic that cannot be easily duplicated by another race. (i.e. flashy clothes shouldn't be that *required* characteristic). Such a characteristic could be a simple mark on the face, like a tattoo specific to a tribe, or something like that.

I agree 100% with this

 

[jpariury]

I disagree with it being a tattoo. It should be a physical characteristic that is oog distinctive and can be used to require a fake version of it be worn, even if you naturally have one. Much like even if your beard overflows and can be knitted to wear as a scarf you need to wear a fake beard to be a dwarf, it should be distinctive enough to be endemic and falsifiable. Maybe long earlobes?

 

[Vazhi]

I disagree with it being a tattoo. It should be a physical characteristic that is oog distinctive and can be used to require a fake version of it be worn, even if you naturally have one. Much like even if your beard overflows and can be knitted to wear as a scarf you need to wear a fake beard to be a dwarf, it should be distinctive enough to be endemic and falsifiable. Maybe long earlobes?

Well, yes. Doesn't have to be a tattoo. Then again, just as a fake beard is obviously a fake beard, a fake tattoo is obviously a fake tattoo. Just as I was told if I played a hobling as an NPC last event at HQ I'd have to wear fake sideburns despite having real ones a Gypsy could likewise be required a fake tattoo despite real ones.

The point isn't that it should be a tattoo though, just that it's something obvious.

 

[jpariury]

Then again, just as a fake beard is obviously a fake beard, a fake tattoo is obviously a fake tattoo.

Not at all. A fake tattoo might be the effect of a Mark ritual (see pg 140).

I actually kinda dig the earlobe idea.

 

[Ondreij]

It's not funny if I have to E X P L A I N it.

I know what STF University is... and I could have chosen to take offense. :roll: But, whatever. I'm leaving it alone now.

Okay, I saw your post as I was shutting up my PC at work to go home so I can finish packing to go to Game, tonight. But let me take a moment so that you will not have to suffer a misconception for the whole weekend.

The post to which I was replying sounded like a half-hearted attempt to end this thread ... a little like STFU. And while I think this thread is a bit offensive (as stated earlier) it's really not the kind of thing that most people find as an acceptable way to try to shut down a thread. There are other choices, like not participating -- by offering satire -- by arguing the point to death -- etc. You seemed to be doing most of these things in a single post --- and then you said that "we are going in circles now" with a tongue stuck out smiley.

So, I was kidding you by asking you if you where telling us that you would rather have us STFU? I wonder if your misconception might be that I was telling YOU to STFU -- nope, not my intention.

I'm off to game, now. C U L8TR.