Gypsy Curse
- Thread starter Avaran
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norman b
Squire
Everything you stated is true. But also what Mike stated in the quote is also true.
Gypsy Curse is a bunk skill (sorry Gypsies). It rarely gets used. And it's also the least powerful skill purchasable. "Hey you! Cry with everything you say and do!" okay? I will just be crying while I kill you. No big deal.
So what if Kin are mischevious and Curse people? The self regulation is that they will be hunted to get the curses off of them. They curse 3 people? Thats 3 people who will want them dead, more if the curse is annoying to other characters. Seems like self regulation to me.
Gypsy Curse is a bunk skill (sorry Gypsies). It rarely gets used. And it's also the least powerful skill purchasable. "Hey you! Cry with everything you say and do!" okay? I will just be crying while I kill you. No big deal.
So what if Kin are mischevious and Curse people? The self regulation is that they will be hunted to get the curses off of them. They curse 3 people? Thats 3 people who will want them dead, more if the curse is annoying to other characters. Seems like self regulation to me.
mikestrauss
Squire
The skill doesn't need in-game social controls, because the Alliance has out-of-game social controls AND the skill has built in rules controls as well.
For starters, it is a role play only skill. Let's be absolutely clear on that. It can not interfere with mechanics. Even if you make someone hiccup with everything they say and do, that can't interfere with spell chants, magic item usage, damage verbals, or anything similar. Additionally, for most of the curses, the recipient chooses the severity (the physical curses are pretty much the only exception).
Second, the curse is designed to embarrass or hinder a CHARACTER. If the curse would make the PLAYER uncomfortable or embarrassed, the recipient of the curse can insist on a different curse. That is the built-in rules control.
Finally, the Good Sportsmanship rule still controls the use of this curse. If you chain curse a character, you are likely making the game un-fun for the player. That isn't acceptable. In fact, just about any unreasonable use of this ability almost certainly falls afoul of the Good Sportsmanship rule.
The references to gypsies using it in the description of the skill are primarily an artifact of the fact that the skill was created when only gypsies could learn the skill. If you look at the examples of Resist Magic, Resist Fear, and Resist Necromancy, you will note that Dark Elves, Barbarians, and High Ogres are used in the examples respectively. Even though we have had edition changes, the majority of the text in this book was written before Wylderkin were allowed to pick two racials freely.
Finally, if you really feel that only rules matter, allow me to point at the description of Wylderkin in the Rule Book.
Wylderkin possess a special advantage
over the other races. A wylderkin can purchase
two racial abilities accessible to any other race
(as long as these skills require a Build Cost; in
other words, they can’t buy “mental abilities”
or “half cost for archery”). This means no two
wylderkin, even of the same kin, are necessarily
alike.
That paragraph is VERY explicit about what they can and can't buy. It even explicitly points out racial advantages that can't be chosen. If the writers intended to exclude Gypsy Curse, it would have been excluded in that paragraph. So, you CAN know the intentions of the writers. And, the words are written in black and white. ANY two build purchased racials are fair game. Arbitrarily refusing to even consider a Wylderkin character with Gypsy Curse as a racial is a violation of the spirit of the rules and the intention of the writers.
-MS
For starters, it is a role play only skill. Let's be absolutely clear on that. It can not interfere with mechanics. Even if you make someone hiccup with everything they say and do, that can't interfere with spell chants, magic item usage, damage verbals, or anything similar. Additionally, for most of the curses, the recipient chooses the severity (the physical curses are pretty much the only exception).
Second, the curse is designed to embarrass or hinder a CHARACTER. If the curse would make the PLAYER uncomfortable or embarrassed, the recipient of the curse can insist on a different curse. That is the built-in rules control.
Finally, the Good Sportsmanship rule still controls the use of this curse. If you chain curse a character, you are likely making the game un-fun for the player. That isn't acceptable. In fact, just about any unreasonable use of this ability almost certainly falls afoul of the Good Sportsmanship rule.
The references to gypsies using it in the description of the skill are primarily an artifact of the fact that the skill was created when only gypsies could learn the skill. If you look at the examples of Resist Magic, Resist Fear, and Resist Necromancy, you will note that Dark Elves, Barbarians, and High Ogres are used in the examples respectively. Even though we have had edition changes, the majority of the text in this book was written before Wylderkin were allowed to pick two racials freely.
Finally, if you really feel that only rules matter, allow me to point at the description of Wylderkin in the Rule Book.
Wylderkin possess a special advantage
over the other races. A wylderkin can purchase
two racial abilities accessible to any other race
(as long as these skills require a Build Cost; in
other words, they can’t buy “mental abilities”
or “half cost for archery”). This means no two
wylderkin, even of the same kin, are necessarily
alike.
That paragraph is VERY explicit about what they can and can't buy. It even explicitly points out racial advantages that can't be chosen. If the writers intended to exclude Gypsy Curse, it would have been excluded in that paragraph. So, you CAN know the intentions of the writers. And, the words are written in black and white. ANY two build purchased racials are fair game. Arbitrarily refusing to even consider a Wylderkin character with Gypsy Curse as a racial is a violation of the spirit of the rules and the intention of the writers.
-MS
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Draven
Count
I don't think anyone in this thread can claim to know what was in the minds of the authors, only what they believe the authors intended.
I agree that Mike is correct that the rules are clear as to which skills are available. Whether this was an oversight of the authors or not is irrelevant, the verbatim has been present for the last two iterations of the rules. It's clearly legal for Kyn to have GC.
I think a better question is "Should GC be in the game?" Personally, I don't think so. It's an effect which has no defense but forces roleplay. There's no other effect in the game like it. Forced roleplay might not kill a character, but it can absolutely kill your enjoyment of an event, which is far more serious to me.
But if GC can be in the game, I don't see why it should be excluded from Kyn. Is it stupid? Sure. Is it more or less stupid because Kyn have access to it? Of course not.
I agree that Mike is correct that the rules are clear as to which skills are available. Whether this was an oversight of the authors or not is irrelevant, the verbatim has been present for the last two iterations of the rules. It's clearly legal for Kyn to have GC.
I think a better question is "Should GC be in the game?" Personally, I don't think so. It's an effect which has no defense but forces roleplay. There's no other effect in the game like it. Forced roleplay might not kill a character, but it can absolutely kill your enjoyment of an event, which is far more serious to me.
But if GC can be in the game, I don't see why it should be excluded from Kyn. Is it stupid? Sure. Is it more or less stupid because Kyn have access to it? Of course not.
mikestrauss
Squire
mikestrauss
Squire
On a technical note (just to rein in potential misconceptions), Gypsy Curse can't be used to force role play, if the recipient isn't comfortable with that role play. The recipient can insist on one of the physical deformity curses (grow a tail, sprout a horn, hair turns green, etc.). I agree with the rest of the sentiment, but the rules do make it clear that the player can avoid any role play change if they insist.
-MS
norman b
Squire
Lesser Fey Curse is actually exactly like it. That was pointed out in the last thread. So, even if GC is gone, LFC will still be a thing.
Draven
Count
Semantics. I had thought my intention was obvious.
Do you have anything to criticize my post, now that it's been clarified for you?
Muir
Fighter
This, but with Lesser and Greater Fey Curse. The worst customer service issues I've ever had have revolved around those two exclusively, Greater Fey Curse especially. On that front, Love 9 and/or Enslavement is just as bad, especially for creating roleplay that makes players so uncomfortable as to ruin their enjoyment.
MissDragGunn
Artisan
This is one of the best reasons as well. Take my coyote for instance. She doesn't like wolves or sarr. And she can be squirrelly and just GC them for being a wolf or sarr? Even though it's "rp only" skill, whatever that curse is can hinder a character depending on how the player takes it. And make the game very unfun
also, some of the worst events I played was being LFC for literally almost an entire event. In fact, I had three curses at once. (Grovel at every nobles feet, talk in rhymes, and hate my protectorate). Yeah, i trust plot but I do not trust the players. Not at all.
I like how the gypsies have social codes of ethics and you really have to mess with a gypsy to get them to do it (I've come close and I probably deserved a couple but I got away)
nothingtoseehere
Artisan
I have very little to say on the actual book rules regarding GC (I'm the last person anyone should ever ask about rules) but like a lot of others have said, the 'good sportmanship' point is KEY. Even in plot's hands.
There is a nicely built in social reason for Gypsies to not GC people frequently- it has to be for a very, very good reason or other Gypsies with shun you. I think that takes a lot of the danger out of them doing it.
As far as mischievous kyn doing it, I think it's on the kyn's player to reverse metagame it. "If this happened to me, would I have fun walking around hiccuping for the rest of event? Do I, as a player, have an actually good reason for doing this, or am I just doing it to be lolmischief?" There are plenty of ways to be a clever kyn without falling back on what can easily be the most annoying thing in the book.
I feel that GC, GFC , LFC, enslavement, and even (though I think it should be a last, last thing) love 9 all have times and places where they can enrich someone's roleplay, but the problem occurs when people use it to be OOG malicious, or to be 'lolrandomsilliness.'
I also feel that it's one of those things that should be talked out between players ahead of time ideally, or done between close OOG friends who know each other well.
I may be a party pooper here, but I feel it should only be used for serious things, not for pranks or casual silly stuff.
There is a nicely built in social reason for Gypsies to not GC people frequently- it has to be for a very, very good reason or other Gypsies with shun you. I think that takes a lot of the danger out of them doing it.
As far as mischievous kyn doing it, I think it's on the kyn's player to reverse metagame it. "If this happened to me, would I have fun walking around hiccuping for the rest of event? Do I, as a player, have an actually good reason for doing this, or am I just doing it to be lolmischief?" There are plenty of ways to be a clever kyn without falling back on what can easily be the most annoying thing in the book.
I feel that GC, GFC , LFC, enslavement, and even (though I think it should be a last, last thing) love 9 all have times and places where they can enrich someone's roleplay, but the problem occurs when people use it to be OOG malicious, or to be 'lolrandomsilliness.'
I also feel that it's one of those things that should be talked out between players ahead of time ideally, or done between close OOG friends who know each other well.
I may be a party pooper here, but I feel it should only be used for serious things, not for pranks or casual silly stuff.
OrcFighterFTW
Spellsword
I get threatened with Gypsy Curse on a regularly basis simply because certain PCs do not like my price structure as a merchant. However, as both a skilled fighter (8 profs) and as a member of the local merchants guild (Brokers Guild of Gaden) the in-game role-playing deterrents have been strong enough for this threat to never actually be carried out (yet). I have also bribed the removal of a curse from someone using these same in-game pressures/discount on items incentives.