Mobius said:the Magic-Fuel is very keen, but it's not, unfortunately, part of the current paradigm; if it had been developed at the beginning of the game (like some other LARPs) it would be perfectly acceptable and viable and no one would think it's screwing anyone over. i have seen some LCO Magic Items which were flawed and demanded some kind of Magic-Fuel, usually in the form of "attuning" (ie, spending coin at Logistics), and found those who used them to be more than happy about it. i think a slow movement to include "Fueled" items would be a welcome change, though not if instantly adopted across the board
the problem with a simple auction is that the influx of coin really won't offset the game-wide inflation rate. unless the auction was a constant affair with a list of MIs and Prod items being sent out at each event (a logistical headache), the influx would be so minuscule as to be almost meaningless. not to mention, it would further increase the gaps 'tween the Haves and the Have-nots as auctions always favour the wealthy - this is not, in and of itself, necessarily 'bad' but the "gear gap" is often cited as a problem with Alliance and, in the end, still wouldn't address the underlying economic issue
the coin problem is one of simple inflation: every Chapter in the game "mints" coin at a steady rate; there's no incentive against hoarding so people accrue massive savings; there's no "cost of living" expenses since PCs don't really spend coin to live. these factors devalue the copper and will eventually lead to a break-down in the economy as more Chapters join the Alliance and compound the problem. any solution needs to address these issues or it's merely a band-aid against longterm organ failure
think of it this way, in order to overcome inflation, any system has to account for that fact that 15 Chapters are each introducing about 1,000 gold worth of "new" coin a year (assuming an anemic 10 games a year each with 100g worth of Treasure Policy). that's 15,000 new gold a year undermining previous investments and PC purchasing power. these numbers are guesstimates based on observation, and inflation will affect high-density areas more than lower-density (eg. East Coast vs West Coast), but the problem is pretty staggering
Mobius said:besides, let's assume the auction idea flies. this means we're dumping all of Treasure Policy back into game as Magic Items. since the auction needs to be held once a game in order to offset TP, MIs become very common and thus, cheap, which means even more MIs need to be auctioned. now, the game is gorged on MIs (a problem people already whinge about) with nothing but more, cheaper, MIs in sight
jpariury said:Putting out production-worthy stuff just staves off the amount of coin outflow you have, it doesn't really bring in more tokens.
Mind you, I like putting out production-substitute payments. It just doesn't really solve the economic issue.
Inaryn said:jpariury said:Putting out production-worthy stuff just staves off the amount of coin outflow you have, it doesn't really bring in more tokens.
Mind you, I like putting out production-substitute payments. It just doesn't really solve the economic issue.
With the system as is, agreed.
Which is why I'd overhaul it.
SkollWolfrun said:Yeah, but how without breaking it further?
Inaryn said:If I were to do it...
I'd overhaul production skills and methods. I'd make the production skill govern what kinds of things you can make/things you can do with the stuff you make (e.g. at 10 ranks you can combine 1 clw and any other potion for 5 extra production, or something.)
I'd make the production fueled off found production. No more purify potions and dragon's breath scrolls on monsters... you find pure water and rare vellum and they're worth PP values. You can make whatever you have access to via skill for whatever you have the production for.
Workshops would either double your production (and cost in coin) or double your skill level, letting you have access to more difficult stuff.
Unfortunately, while it'd probably bring in a lot more coin, it also involves a new set of tags. So it doesn't exactly make things easier... just different.
jpariury said:AFAICT, the primary issue is that while there is a mechanical requirement that chapters put out X amount coin (or its equivalent) on average over the course of some amount of events, there is no mechanical drive for chapters to pull in some amount of coin on any regular basis. It's hard-coded that chapters must give coin, but not hard-coded that coin must come back in. Production doesn't really solve the issue because there is no requirement that characters buy it. Sure, it's nice to have and can make things easier, but I've rarely ever seen a situation that would have been make or break based on the presence of production items, and in the instances where I have, it's because those effects were only accessible by those means.
OrcFighterFTW said:I like the idea of a banking system, however it should fit with the political structure of our game. A government-backed bank is an incredibly modern idea (in fact, currently being debated in our own government).
A better system for the game given our Medieval flavor would be similar to the Medici banks that funded the Renaissance, as the political system of our game is pre-Renaissance. These were a system of very wealthy family-owned and operated banks that charged high prices for their services; however, it was also the first major system to have a "branch" system since the Roman Empire, where one could deposit funds in one city and withdraw them in another (often for land purchases). As a game mechanic, these added fees (deposit/withdrawal fees?) would also bring in more coin beyond the deposited funds and the branch system could be done through Circles of Power.
Land loans or even personal loans might also be a possibility, with the added "bonus" of personal plot for those who did not pay back debts in full (think debt collecting High Orcs...). The Medici family through this wealth was able to give money to government institutions and buy political positions, most notably in the Vatican. In our game, it could be changed to buying positions into Guilds and otherwise influencing Nobility (such as buying things for magical Guild to allow a system of Circles to be set-up in the first place). This could add another layer to the nobility structure and give Plot teams more to work with, as power conflicts could be a source of plot and hooks. Prime candidates to run the banks would be Hoblings.
As a player, the incentive to store coin in the bank would be guaranteed in-game protection from theft for coins (up to a certain limit). The merchant skill would then become more valuable as random production items found that would not otherwise be guaranteed protection can be converted to coin.
To help the game running side, the bank could be "open for business" only during Logistics, and that way, the information about the players funds is recorded and maintained all at the same time. Yes, it's an additional step for Logistics, but it's better than a bank PCs could use all day (which would happen, thus effectively taking out at least one person with access to player files for the weekend and that's no fun for anyone).
This could solve the issue of physical coinage and add more to the gameworld, so I think it could be a win-win.
Edit: Spelling/Grammar