Jackrabbit kin

Toddo

Knight
HQ Staff
Marshal
Specific plot teams have every right to deny racials to Wylderkin transferring in, whether or not they do so is up to them. I trust the plot teams I'm familiar with to have good reasons for their choices and more importantly the last thing I want to do is piss off a player who gets into the logistics line and gets told that the racials they've been playing with aren't approved, it's a crappy first impression and it's not worth the fight with the player and especially not the other plot team. If said player pre-regged for the event and I had some advance warning I might ask for the home plot team's justification though, but as long as there's a reasonable rationale I wouldn't take away a player's skills. It's a customer service and "Is this worth the drama?" call. I have yet to see an insane animal/ability combo sent over for transfer, though I'm sure Jesse is even now transferring a walrus-kin with dodge and resist binding over in order to mess with me :shades: , and while I might not think some choices are the best ones for a specific animal type I've never had Dodgy McSlotherton sent to me by my logistics for approval.
 

Toddo

Knight
HQ Staff
Marshal
jpariury said:
Toddo said:
as long as the player is asking to do something the animal is capable of I don't see why it shouldn't be allowed
(italics mine) Under those auspices, every animal is "capable" of any racial skill. Why shouldn't a slugkyn be allowed racial dodge? Aren't they capable of moving out of the way of something? Why you tryin' to keep the slug down with your oppressive regime? :D

At that point (capable vs known for), the need for justification is meaningless.

At first thaw I'm going out to the garden and throwing packets at slugs until one manages to avoid it or any reason other than poor aim on my part, you've driven me to having to do this even though you knew exactly what I was saying. If you think the slugs were oppressed BEFORE... :p

On a related note, I'm ok with bears having resist magic. I tried to pin one once and it completely ignored it. Though come to think of it it may have been cheating, I didn't hear a resist and once I realized it wasn't a PC I didn't hang around.
 

jpariury

Duke
Toddo said:
At first thaw I'm going out to the garden and throwing packets at slugs until one manages to avoid it or any reason other than poor aim on my part
You say poor aim, I say mad dodgy abilities so fast, that they moved to where you wouldn't hit before you even threw the packet. :thumbsup:

On a related note, I'm ok with bears having resist magic. I tried to pin one once and it completely ignored it. Though come to think of it it may have been cheating, I didn't hear a resist and once I realized it wasn't a PC I didn't hang around.
Then we need to bring back Capture Magic. I had a squirrel leap up and steal my packet out of midair... damn NPC just laughed and laughed... :eek:hmy:

If enforcing a rule ever comes down to "is it worth the drama", you either need to replace the player or the rule.
 

Gilwing

Baron
Alliance Logistics
[quote="Toddo"On a related note, I'm ok with bears having resist magic. I tried to pin one once and it completely ignored it. Though come to think of it it may have been cheating, I didn't hear a resist and once I realized it wasn't a PC I didn't hang around.[/quote]

In all seriousness Toddo, how would you justify resist magic as a choice.

I agree with you that the animal should be cable of doing the racial that is chosen (I think dodge would work for a rabbit, thems fast animals), but I always like to say that every animal in real life is resistant to magic ;)
 

Mobius

Squire
real quick: i can't find the section in the book which states Wylderkin abilities/characters can be denied on a Chapter by Chapter basis, ¿could someone please cite it, please? thanks :)
 

jpariury

Duke
Mobius said:
real quick: i can't find the section in the book which states Wylderkin abilities/characters can be denied on a Chapter by Chapter basis, ¿could someone please cite it, please? thanks :)
Page 47, the text directly around Hayley's photo: This choice can be vetoed by your game’s Plot Committee if it is inappropriate, and other Alliance games have the right to refuse your character’s skills if they are not reasonable..
 

Ezri

Knight
HQ Staff
Gilwing said:
="Toddo"On a related note, I'm ok with bears having resist magic. I tried to pin one once and it completely ignored it. Though come to think of it it may have been cheating, I didn't hear a resist and once I realized it wasn't a PC I didn't hang around.
In all seriousness Toddo, how would you justify resist magic as a choice.

I agree with you that the animal should be cable of doing the racial that is chosen (I think dodge would work for a rabbit, thems fast animals), but I always like to say that every animal in real life is resistant to magic ;)
If you're going off legends and shamanic beliefs rather than biology, Bear is a VERY magical being indeed. I don't think you're going to find a biological justification for any animal to have resist magic, but I'm sure somebody can prove me wrong there too. ;)
 
Ezri said:
Gilwing said:
="Toddo"On a related note, I'm ok with bears having resist magic. I tried to pin one once and it completely ignored it. Though come to think of it it may have been cheating, I didn't hear a resist and once I realized it wasn't a PC I didn't hang around.
In all seriousness Toddo, how would you justify resist magic as a choice.

I agree with you that the animal should be cable of doing the racial that is chosen (I think dodge would work for a rabbit, thems fast animals), but I always like to say that every animal in real life is resistant to magic ;)
If you're going off legends and shamanic beliefs rather than biology, Bear is a VERY magical being indeed. I don't think you're going to find a biological justification for any animal to have resist magic, but I'm sure somebody can prove me wrong there too. ;)
We have elves...nuf said.
 

iWolfe

Newbie
Ezri said:
Gilwing said:
="Toddo"On a related note, I'm ok with bears having resist magic. I tried to pin one once and it completely ignored it. Though come to think of it it may have been cheating, I didn't hear a resist and once I realized it wasn't a PC I didn't hang around.
In all seriousness Toddo, how would you justify resist magic as a choice.

I agree with you that the animal should be cable of doing the racial that is chosen (I think dodge would work for a rabbit, thems fast animals), but I always like to say that every animal in real life is resistant to magic ;)
If you're going off legends and shamanic beliefs rather than biology, Bear is a VERY magical being indeed. I don't think you're going to find a biological justification for any animal to have resist magic, but I'm sure somebody can prove me wrong there too. ;)
I agree with this. The only pitfall is that depending on which beliefs you're referencing, animals have a wide range of magical abilities. I feel like resist magic would have to be justified more by the 'fluff' you put into the character, rather than the 'crunch' of the animal. Basically, if you want to play a bear that has resist magic, find a culture that thinks they have resistance to magic and model the character around that culture.

While this is a whole different issue, be careful of which culture that you use. If you use the major Western spiritual beliefs about an animal, you may be breaching the 'No Religion' rule. Meanwhile, using African spiritualism, shamanism, or even pagan European beliefs (like incant magic, magic wands, fae) means you're scot free. While this isn't logical, it's something to keep in mind.
 

iWolfe

Newbie
Alavatar said:
Going off of religion or spiritualism for justification of a racial would put the animal-kyn in the realm of mythology rather than naturally. No Unicorn-kyn. :ninja:
Some people have already done it, though. There are scavies (wylderkin) with gypsy curse, IIRC. I won't point fingers, but they've been on the boards. Tell me an animal who can curse people IRL? Magic itself is a form of spiritualism and/or religion and/or mythology, but Alliance seems to accept it in the game.

That said, I agree that basing it off of religion or spiritualism isn't necessarily appropriate for this game. I actually enjoy the idea of wylderkin being a race that really just doesn't deal with magic that much, either casting it or defending against it.
 

jpariury

Duke
iWolfe said:
Some people have already done it, though. There are scavies (wylderkin) with gypsy curse, IIRC.
Personally, I don't know that I would approve that, though, for pretty much all the reasons I cited (plus, Adam's point is a pretty solid one).
 

James Trotta

Spellsword
Diversity Committee
A lot of people have been talking about what makes sense for a jackrabbit and that's cool but let's also ask what makes sense for the character. You say you plan to play a rogue. As a rogue you can buy dodges anyway (far cheaper than racial dodge I might add though you do have to buy some backstabs before the dodge). My rogue has 5 dodges. If I had a racial dodge on top of that it wouldn't add any coolness to my character.

Ezri mentioned resist command, which can be a very useful skill and which no class can buy. So resist command would add something special to a rogue that dodge would not.

I have no problem with assassinate and while rogues get them anyway, 2 assassinates are far better than 1 thanks to the way damage stacks. Still, racial proficiency or racial slay offers a rogue something much harder to get than racial assassinate.

Someone mentioned resist magic cause of the lucky foot (though the foot didn't keep the rabbit safe) and someone said it makes no sense cause of pulling rabbits from a hat. The hat thing might be anachronistic though - I suppose you could find some culture that says rabbits are magical. Resist magic is another cool thing that no class can buy.

My own personal thought is that resist command and resist binding make some sense for rabbits and are pretty useful skills. A rogue with a few dodges, a few resist command, and a few resist binding would have a lot of useful defensive calls and be very rabbit-like.

Istobla said:
I have this idea for a kin character that i think would be fun to play, A jackrabbit kin and as i am new to Alliance i would like to hear from some people with more experience. I was thinking Racial dodge and Racial Assassinate, the first being an obvious choice, and the last being based on having seen rabbits fight. this isn't some bush bunny, and i imagine a jackrabbit that learns to swing a sword to be a hit and run go for the back sort of fighter(or rouge as i will likely play him).
 

Talen

Adept
jpariury said:
Mobius said:
as such, since Wolfkyn are allowed Claws and that's a sketchy description of how wolves actually hunt, ¿why not do the same for Harekyn? Wilderkyn have never been "realistic" in their portrayal of animals, it's all analogue
I'm not a fan of wolfkyn with claws either, though, so you're preaching to the choir on that mark. And lionkyn are not permitted. :)
I look at that as being a legacy of "wolfen/wolfyn" elsewhere, aka humanoid wolf-people. If they went straight from the animal, I'd go for crit attacks for "hamstringing" and such. :p
 

Alavatar

Baron
I always viewed Wylderkyn racials as representative of what an animal is kind of known for, not what it is capable of.

Is the animal known for either being carnivorous or a hunting animal? Like a spider, wolf, badger, hyena, etc? Claws might be appropriate.

Is the animal known for having particularly dangerous natural weaponry, such as a bull, porcupine, stingray, rhino, elephant, etc? Claws may be appropriate with some friendly debate.

Is the animal known to be aggressive, but not a hunter and does not have natural weaponry, such as a gorilla, hippopotamus, seal, etc? Claws probably are not appropriate.

Is the animal known to be skittish and only fight when backed into a corner, such as a rabbit, turtle, hamster, deer, squirrel, etc? Claws probably shouldn't even be thought of.

Mythological tales, spiritual anecdotes, religious documentation, superstitious old-wives tales, drug-induced dream walk stories, and fantastical movies should never (IMO) be used for justification of a Wylderkyn's racial abilities.
 

Istobla

Newbie
Well it has been settled. At least for me. This is not a binding ruling but a precedent set by my plot people.
I talked to plot and have been approved for a Jackrabbit kin with dodge and prof. Assassinate does seem to be a particularly predatory skill. Plot agreed that the logic test for a kin traits is if the advantages of size and thumbs were equalized, what advantages would the animal have over a human. Rabbits and hairs, particularly Jackrabbits, have much greater agility and much greater power per pound. I could also have made an argument for slay but prof was a better choice. Over the course of this discussion i came to realize that rabbits do not in fact stock and kill. they just bite kick and claw(yes they do) until they can get away.
That an animal needs to be well known for its trait never seemed right to me. The rule book only says it must make sense, and the logic test i mentioned satisfies that for me, for my plot team and i think it should be general test for wilderkin traits. so no slug dodge, bunny assassinate or dog resist poison, but yes bunny prof.
Thank all of you for the input and the arguments. it helped me understand what does and does not make sense and practice my case before going to plot. now we have to think of another questionable trait case to argue about. I am still not sure about resist magic or gypsy curse for any animal, but it can be swung i guess, with a cultural element.
Cheers all.
Ill post pics when i get the whole costume together.
 

Inaryn

Knight
Sunnfire said:
Please show me where the exception to playing at a lower build total if your racial skills are refused is.
I'm not sure I understand the way you worded this but I'll take a whack at it.

There isn't one. If your racials get refused, you don't get to respend the build or play as if you have less build. You just don't get to use those abilities.
 

Sunnfire

Squire
Except that you are not allowed to play your character with less build. Period.

So refusal of racial abilities = don't play here.

Hence where I said it gets a little sticky if you start refusing paying customers because a different plot team said their racial abilities were fine, but you decide for your arbitrary reasons that they are not.
 
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