A
Anonymous
Guest
Balryn said:
I participated in NERO NW's nerf xbow experiment. It was fun. We even got to retrieve our arrows for reuse, which made it more realistic.
NERO Archery
- Thread starter Polare
- Start date
I participated in NERO NW's nerf xbow experiment. It was fun. We even got to retrieve our arrows for reuse, which made it more realistic.
most_precious_blood
Newbie
Dale makes safe arrows for use with a real bow,
http://www.larponry.com
They rule and don't need any APD, you can step on them, and they will return (with a little coaxing) to their original shape
they don't shatter, either.
-Gid
http://www.larponry.com
They rule and don't need any APD, you can step on them, and they will return (with a little coaxing) to their original shape
they don't shatter, either.
-Gid
A
Anonymous
Guest
People have quoted SCA and other LARPS as sources for using bows in combat with packet-mounted heads. Without knowing what the other LARPs are like, I would like to point out that SCA archers often are at one end of a field from the people they are shooting at, at the distance of many yards, and often their shots are up into the air for arching shots.
NERO is a much more...closer game. I would rather take a packet in the eye thrown by a person at five feet away than a packet with a stick behind it from a bow from five feet away.
There is also the fact that, as far as the SCA is concerned, they have things like gorgets, helmets, and certain portions of the body MUST be armored. From what I remember of SCA archery requirements and SCA armor requirements, the heads of arrows are designed to not be able to go through the grills of SCA helmets.
NERO has no such requirements. Armor is not required, the material of armor that is voluntarily worn can be anything from leather scraps to plate or chain but this is not a requirement.
Yes, NERO archery is not realistic but it works for how the rest of the system is set up (a packet will cause no serious harm, even if it hits the face or throat, to a person in armor or not). And personally and brutally, anyone who wants to make such a system incorporating real bows and modified arrows should be the first volunteers to get shot in the face during playtesting to see if they really want such things coming at them in game.
I don't think it needs to be said that I will not be such a volunteer or that I'm thrilled at the idea of such changes being made. Just adding my two cents.
NERO is a much more...closer game. I would rather take a packet in the eye thrown by a person at five feet away than a packet with a stick behind it from a bow from five feet away.
There is also the fact that, as far as the SCA is concerned, they have things like gorgets, helmets, and certain portions of the body MUST be armored. From what I remember of SCA archery requirements and SCA armor requirements, the heads of arrows are designed to not be able to go through the grills of SCA helmets.
NERO has no such requirements. Armor is not required, the material of armor that is voluntarily worn can be anything from leather scraps to plate or chain but this is not a requirement.
Yes, NERO archery is not realistic but it works for how the rest of the system is set up (a packet will cause no serious harm, even if it hits the face or throat, to a person in armor or not). And personally and brutally, anyone who wants to make such a system incorporating real bows and modified arrows should be the first volunteers to get shot in the face during playtesting to see if they really want such things coming at them in game.
I don't think it needs to be said that I will not be such a volunteer or that I'm thrilled at the idea of such changes being made. Just adding my two cents.
most_precious_blood
Newbie
Sassing Matt
One inch breaths and eyeslots, so the 1" shaft can't get in
And to get off topic for a second (and sass matt) The SCA requires NO "Rigid material" over your forearm (Pretty sure that's society wide) but Tuchux and other groups repeatedly send members home with broken humerus and forearm casts.
Helms are pointless in NERO, I still wear one occasionally. and also more on topic, I know the LArponry arrows are expensive, but I can get an order together for much cheaper if people would like to try them. Something I forgot: the tubes are bigger diameter than someone's eye socket, meaning it's less likely you will crush an occular orbit or rupture someone's cornea.
my 2 cc...
-Gid
Thorn said:
One inch breaths and eyeslots, so the 1" shaft can't get in
And to get off topic for a second (and sass matt) The SCA requires NO "Rigid material" over your forearm (Pretty sure that's society wide) but Tuchux and other groups repeatedly send members home with broken humerus and forearm casts.
Helms are pointless in NERO, I still wear one occasionally. and also more on topic, I know the LArponry arrows are expensive, but I can get an order together for much cheaper if people would like to try them. Something I forgot: the tubes are bigger diameter than someone's eye socket, meaning it's less likely you will crush an occular orbit or rupture someone's cornea.
my 2 cc...
-Gid
Experience
I played amtgard. (stop laughing)
I've been shot in the face, and groin, from about 8 feet away, with the "regular arrow with a padded end" type arrows. Trust me, you'd rather take a packet.
The arrows from the site Gid listed however (much as I'm loathe to admit) hurt significantly less than a packet. They are a hell of a lot closer to a nero regulation weapon than the aforementioned padded sticks, and won't shatter if you step on them.
Arrows are not the issue that will slow the process down.
Bows are.
Until we find a bow that someone can wield in a battle, then whirl around and catch a player in the face without causing harm, this won't progress. If I have the time this weekend, I'l lsee about picking up a 20-30 pound draw bow, and see if there's a chance of padding it. Suggestions would be appreciated.
T~
I played amtgard. (stop laughing)
I've been shot in the face, and groin, from about 8 feet away, with the "regular arrow with a padded end" type arrows. Trust me, you'd rather take a packet.
The arrows from the site Gid listed however (much as I'm loathe to admit) hurt significantly less than a packet. They are a hell of a lot closer to a nero regulation weapon than the aforementioned padded sticks, and won't shatter if you step on them.
Arrows are not the issue that will slow the process down.
Bows are.
Until we find a bow that someone can wield in a battle, then whirl around and catch a player in the face without causing harm, this won't progress. If I have the time this weekend, I'l lsee about picking up a 20-30 pound draw bow, and see if there's a chance of padding it. Suggestions would be appreciated.
T~
A
Anonymous
Guest
Personally, If they incorporated actual bows into NERO, I would stop playing.
I could easily see someone skipping a few bucks to make things cheaper and geting low quality material that the shaft then pieces through after the first couple times it was shot (or maybe later).
Or, just in general, an old arrow being shot one too many times and breaking in a similar fashion. Or possibly the material compressing too much and it feeling like a rock is hitting you instead of a pad.
Additionally, I'm worried about someone doing full draw at close range, which could hurt.
I'm not fond of pain.
I know it seems like I'm just doing the 'what if, what if, what if', but I'm serious. Lots of people who play NERO are short on money, and some of them swing to hard with swords as it is. I wouldn't like to see a bow in their hands.
Just my 2 cents worth
-Grayden
I could easily see someone skipping a few bucks to make things cheaper and geting low quality material that the shaft then pieces through after the first couple times it was shot (or maybe later).
Or, just in general, an old arrow being shot one too many times and breaking in a similar fashion. Or possibly the material compressing too much and it feeling like a rock is hitting you instead of a pad.
Additionally, I'm worried about someone doing full draw at close range, which could hurt.
I'm not fond of pain.
I know it seems like I'm just doing the 'what if, what if, what if', but I'm serious. Lots of people who play NERO are short on money, and some of them swing to hard with swords as it is. I wouldn't like to see a bow in their hands.
Just my 2 cents worth
-Grayden
From experience, I can say that NERO Bows are no more dangerous than the swords you use already. Freak accidents aside, a 20-30 lb bow has *far* less force being applied to a thrusting tip than a sword being wielded by a twelve year old.Raygren said:
NERO combat requires safety and some practice. I see people accidentally lunge with swords or move in on people too quickly with melee weapons all the time.
Yet I have seen freak accidents, ranging from impaling someone on 3/4 inch PVC to crushing someone's throat.
~B
My .02
Reload time was much worse than packets 1-2 arrows a minute was about right doing 3 a min was fast for me.I didn't see much of a safety concern with the bow and arrows. I actually believe the packets can cause more problems.
Most people would try ot block the arrow head on instead of trying to swipe at them.
I used to be a templar when you could use a 20-30 pd bow. I used aluminum shafted arrows with Pool noodle and closed cell foam tips. Just imagine a sword thrusting tip on the arrow. There were times that I was able to shoot much farther and accurately than packets. But when it came downto close range I almost always had to drop the bow and switch to sword just like in real life. In real life, the archers always got cut down if they allowed their enemy with sword distance. Also the most I could carry is about 20-30 arrows since they are quite larger than normal arrows. I never did have one break or bend even after people hit them.Balryn said:
Reload time was much worse than packets 1-2 arrows a minute was about right doing 3 a min was fast for me.I didn't see much of a safety concern with the bow and arrows. I actually believe the packets can cause more problems.
Most people would try ot block the arrow head on instead of trying to swipe at them.
Alavatar
Baron
I was looking through old Rules messages and saw this. So, I decided to be a necromancer and cast "Create Undead" on this thread!
What does Alliance Seattle think about the current Alliance LARP national community with regards to starting to allow 20-30lbs bows again? From my experience in Devia, using real bows added significantly to the suspension of disbelief.
What does Alliance Seattle think about the current Alliance LARP national community with regards to starting to allow 20-30lbs bows again? From my experience in Devia, using real bows added significantly to the suspension of disbelief.
SkollWolfrun
Squire
Alavatar said:
personally, I am for it. I sort of know how to shoot though. You would either see a significant drop in the number of archers on the field or people going out and taking lessons. Also, the cost of a real bow (something that is not some cam-shaft or kiddie) is around $100+ and the real LARP arrows are another $15+ each. If it went this route, I would think all bows would go to a set damage, not usable to block.
obcidian_bandit
Count
Yeah, they'd need a significant jump in damage. Like, to Bladestorm levels (your slay damage, all the time). Otherwise, use a shield and rush a guy with a bow, the bow guy will always lose, regardless of level disparity.
My issue is that I have just about been blinded by the plastic "feathers" on larp arrows in other larps. Archer aimed high, I moved and the shaft came across my face and the fletching came right across my eyes, if I had not been turning it would have ended poorly. That and how would this effect page archers?
Draven
Count
I've taken a 25 lb shot to the face at 30-40 feet. My glasses were significantly bent, and a lens popped out. This was during a night fight, and the player who shot at me thought I was an enemy. So that just sorta rubbed salt in the wound. I don't really enjoy the prospect of that again.
I realize that, in boffer combat, groin/headshots happen. But bows require a greater degree of personal skill than melee boffers to avoid possible damage. Even a couple of degrees off, at the right arc, could be the difference between a good center-chest shot and right in the nose. A particularly skilled player is more likely to make farther shots that requires even greater precision in order to avoid injury. Especially since a -lot- of combat happens at night right now. Do you think Corrupt NPCs would appreciate people half-blindly shooting bows at them in the dark, when these arrows actually do pack something equivalent to a light punch? I figure that Plot wouldn't send out NPCs that aren't very skilled with a bow, so there'd be less danger to the PC-side...but there's no real qualification for a PC. And I don't like that, not at all. That would seriously prevent me from ever joining an NPC guild.
There's also the fact that parrying with a real bow could result in a broken real bow. So there'd be a conflict there.
Longer range means more difficult in hearing skill calls. That creates an issue with combat.
As a former player of Shadow Accord, I can tell you that I have a serious appreciation for game immersion. But I think using real bows is a can of worms. When I first started playing Alliance, and I saw the packet-bows, I said "Oh, thank god. Safe archery." I'd give up that immersion for safety any day of the week.
I realize that, in boffer combat, groin/headshots happen. But bows require a greater degree of personal skill than melee boffers to avoid possible damage. Even a couple of degrees off, at the right arc, could be the difference between a good center-chest shot and right in the nose. A particularly skilled player is more likely to make farther shots that requires even greater precision in order to avoid injury. Especially since a -lot- of combat happens at night right now. Do you think Corrupt NPCs would appreciate people half-blindly shooting bows at them in the dark, when these arrows actually do pack something equivalent to a light punch? I figure that Plot wouldn't send out NPCs that aren't very skilled with a bow, so there'd be less danger to the PC-side...but there's no real qualification for a PC. And I don't like that, not at all. That would seriously prevent me from ever joining an NPC guild.
There's also the fact that parrying with a real bow could result in a broken real bow. So there'd be a conflict there.
Longer range means more difficult in hearing skill calls. That creates an issue with combat.
As a former player of Shadow Accord, I can tell you that I have a serious appreciation for game immersion. But I think using real bows is a can of worms. When I first started playing Alliance, and I saw the packet-bows, I said "Oh, thank god. Safe archery." I'd give up that immersion for safety any day of the week.
Re: Alliance Archery
[self serving partial thread jack]
So in response to the original thread I am for being against using "actual" [prop] bows to fire against players. Though I do believe that in the spirit of increasing "realism" the look and feel would be more immersive, I ultimately have three very specific reasons for my opposition.
1. Prohibitive cost. The props, when well made, are expensive enough that they would suck to replace as they got bent/warped, etc. Due to the nature of firing this weapon, there would be a good amount of time that the prop would be out of your control in a hectic situation. All in all this would not only limit who could be an archer, but could create animosity among the players assuming some klutz (such as myself) keeps backing up over their arrows on the ground.
2. Ability and control. Not everyone has the strength or control to effectively fire a bow. While the same can be said for a packet based attack, I am less afraid of a wild packet than I am of a drawn shot that goes off course. Same can be said for point blank shots. Same can also be said for long range shots. Same could also be said for a surprise shot. I think I really just don't like the idea of being shot.
3. Rogues! All those awesome things you see rogues do, would be just a little different with a $100 prop on your back. Diving over the log and sliding down into your ambush spot? Not with a Bow on your back. Sliding on the ground out from under the table for an awesome back attack? Not without putting risk to that bow again. You get the point. Acrobatics, etc. no good with a bow, but you can maybe (maaaaayyyyyyybbbbbeeee) land a terminate at 20ft.
For my part, I like having a packet based attack.
On that note, now that the ribbon hazard has been removed, what do people think about blue packets to the head parts? Not blue packets seem to work just fine, but something about blue just doesn't seem to stick (get it, cause its an arrow?). Would this cause archers to have too much raw power? Being the only weapon attacks legally allowed to make contact with your pretty face (yes, yours). As I am an archer in game, I feel like I am obviously going to champion the cause, but why shouldn't there be a move to help out others as well? I have seen the face of defeat when a Rogue blows a one shot on a packet that goes high, or leads a target only to have that target duck their head right into it (See it doesn't just help me!). Either way, what are your thoughts on this (as well as the original thread as well, I didn't intend to jack the entire thing).
[self serving partial thread jack]
So in response to the original thread I am for being against using "actual" [prop] bows to fire against players. Though I do believe that in the spirit of increasing "realism" the look and feel would be more immersive, I ultimately have three very specific reasons for my opposition.
1. Prohibitive cost. The props, when well made, are expensive enough that they would suck to replace as they got bent/warped, etc. Due to the nature of firing this weapon, there would be a good amount of time that the prop would be out of your control in a hectic situation. All in all this would not only limit who could be an archer, but could create animosity among the players assuming some klutz (such as myself) keeps backing up over their arrows on the ground.
2. Ability and control. Not everyone has the strength or control to effectively fire a bow. While the same can be said for a packet based attack, I am less afraid of a wild packet than I am of a drawn shot that goes off course. Same can be said for point blank shots. Same can also be said for long range shots. Same could also be said for a surprise shot. I think I really just don't like the idea of being shot.
3. Rogues! All those awesome things you see rogues do, would be just a little different with a $100 prop on your back. Diving over the log and sliding down into your ambush spot? Not with a Bow on your back. Sliding on the ground out from under the table for an awesome back attack? Not without putting risk to that bow again. You get the point. Acrobatics, etc. no good with a bow, but you can maybe (maaaaayyyyyyybbbbbeeee) land a terminate at 20ft.
For my part, I like having a packet based attack.
On that note, now that the ribbon hazard has been removed, what do people think about blue packets to the head parts? Not blue packets seem to work just fine, but something about blue just doesn't seem to stick (get it, cause its an arrow?). Would this cause archers to have too much raw power? Being the only weapon attacks legally allowed to make contact with your pretty face (yes, yours). As I am an archer in game, I feel like I am obviously going to champion the cause, but why shouldn't there be a move to help out others as well? I have seen the face of defeat when a Rogue blows a one shot on a packet that goes high, or leads a target only to have that target duck their head right into it (See it doesn't just help me!). Either way, what are your thoughts on this (as well as the original thread as well, I didn't intend to jack the entire thing).
evi1r0n
Baron
People keep mentioning how "immersive" the bows would make the game. I'll buy into that notion when I stop seeing modern food wrappers and drink containers. There are a lot of things we can do to make the game more immersive that don't involve major rules changes.
"The dragon is attacking!"
"Wait, I must slam this can of energy drink first."
Oh, arrows are the only packets that don't count as hits when they strike an illegal area (head, groin, hands). I think that should be changed but that's a whole other bag of kittens. I certainly don't think those areas should be purposefully targeted but when it happens it should be just like gas or magic.
"The dragon is attacking!"
"Wait, I must slam this can of energy drink first."
Oh, arrows are the only packets that don't count as hits when they strike an illegal area (head, groin, hands). I think that should be changed but that's a whole other bag of kittens. I certainly don't think those areas should be purposefully targeted but when it happens it should be just like gas or magic.
Re: Alliance Archery
I am only going to address this comment (as apparently I made my other feelings known back in 2005! talk about threadomancy!). With the inclusion of latex weapons, I don't think this argument flies. Latex weapons are far more expensive than a simple low-poundage bow. I have enough of each to know, trust me - I still have 3 bows and a full box of commercially made padded arrows from Devia in the garage!
-Bryan
A.Mungo said:
I am only going to address this comment (as apparently I made my other feelings known back in 2005! talk about threadomancy!). With the inclusion of latex weapons, I don't think this argument flies. Latex weapons are far more expensive than a simple low-poundage bow. I have enough of each to know, trust me - I still have 3 bows and a full box of commercially made padded arrows from Devia in the garage!
-Bryan