New Acarthia Merchants Guild
- Thread starter NightEyes
- Start date
I really like the idea of a magic item being sold by the guild once per game. I think this by itself would make the merchant's guild relevant to the rest of the game. The other functions of the guild are largely obsoleted by Goblin Points, or are fully out of game (sale of items for real money).
If the Merchant's Guild is willing to buy and sell silvered and strengthened items for a reasonable cost that will also give them purpose in game.
If the Merchant's Guild is willing to buy and sell silvered and strengthened items for a reasonable cost that will also give them purpose in game.
Klandaghi
Apprentice
I'd be happy to post what I received and what we had printed, but I have no guarantee that it's the final product, so I'd rather wait till I know 100% for sure that it is. I suspect it will end up being a post here in the forums as they are the official location for items and then back linked in a post on Facebook that is announcing it.
Speaking to Strengthened and Silvered Items:
There is an additional cost over production that drives the mark up on those way up and normally only by the extra production that is there. I get funny looks as Radulfr when I state the following prices:
Market Pricing (Easy Coin Conversion) [Service Fee past the material cost]
Long Sword - 60 Copper (6 Silver) [3 Silver]
Silvered Long sword - 240 Copper (2 Gold, 4 Silver) [4 Silver, 5 Copper]
Strengthened Long Sword - 660 Copper (6 Gold, 6 Silver) [8 Silver]
Silvered and Strengthened Long Sword - 840 Copper (8 Gold, 4 Silver) [9 Silver, 5 Copper]
Anything that isn't in that [Fee Bracket] is all production cost to make it.
A lot of people miss the 1 Gold 5 Silver in Silver Pieces as additional materials for Silvering and the 5 Gold in Silver Pieces as materials for Strengthening. That's in addition to the production costs, so it seems to spike it up a lot, but you can't expect that material cost to not be passed on. Market Price as I've understood it has always been double base production. So half of what you are paying is the material cost and the other half is the service of having it made/stocked/delivered/available. If the merchant in question wants to haggle that's another thing, but you better believe they're going to want something of value equal to the discount somewhere along the line. I've heard people state that they want it at cost, which is not a way to do business
Speaking to Strengthened and Silvered Items:
There is an additional cost over production that drives the mark up on those way up and normally only by the extra production that is there. I get funny looks as Radulfr when I state the following prices:
Market Pricing (Easy Coin Conversion) [Service Fee past the material cost]
Long Sword - 60 Copper (6 Silver) [3 Silver]
Silvered Long sword - 240 Copper (2 Gold, 4 Silver) [4 Silver, 5 Copper]
Strengthened Long Sword - 660 Copper (6 Gold, 6 Silver) [8 Silver]
Silvered and Strengthened Long Sword - 840 Copper (8 Gold, 4 Silver) [9 Silver, 5 Copper]
Anything that isn't in that [Fee Bracket] is all production cost to make it.
A lot of people miss the 1 Gold 5 Silver in Silver Pieces as additional materials for Silvering and the 5 Gold in Silver Pieces as materials for Strengthening. That's in addition to the production costs, so it seems to spike it up a lot, but you can't expect that material cost to not be passed on. Market Price as I've understood it has always been double base production. So half of what you are paying is the material cost and the other half is the service of having it made/stocked/delivered/available. If the merchant in question wants to haggle that's another thing, but you better believe they're going to want something of value equal to the discount somewhere along the line. I've heard people state that they want it at cost, which is not a way to do business
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Thorgrim
Apprentice
In regards to the merchant guild selling a magic item, the problem I see is people will literally be beating down the door of the merchant's guild waiting for it to open and then fighting to buy the item if it is a set price. I suppose the merchant's guild could sell it via some sort of silent auction based on who offers the largest bid by a certain time. I personally would be okay with a silent auction for a magic item sold by the merchant's guild and think that would be the best way to do it, but we already know people have reservations about auctions because it means only the richest groups get magic items.
Klandaghi
Apprentice
That's assuming that it's just there at opening, it could be a shipment brings it in. It could be on display for pick up at a certain time by an NPC that then sells it. Who knows. I could see Silent Auction being a way to go, but that seems a little odd to me. Technically we could make the Merchants Guild the Auction site for the Spoils Sack to break items to coin. But I'd worry about adding that into the established practices, though it makes more sense and I thought I heard that one of the taverns at the Death's Isles even charged for doing it in their Tavern. Harry, might appreciate business not being conducted so openly in his Tavern without giving him a cut of the action.
Eadar
Adept
Asking for a cut of the action of the auctions for the loot sack will end up with that person's spirit in the earth circle. And we can just do it outside.
Seriously, we have enough greedy fucks in the game among the PCs, don't make the tavern or the merchant's guild part of that too.
Seriously, we have enough greedy fucks in the game among the PCs, don't make the tavern or the merchant's guild part of that too.
Thorgrim
Apprentice
To be fair what we had to deal with in Bayside (didn't have anybody ask for money for bartering a transaction in the tavern in Death's Isles that I know of) was just plain fleecing adventurers who happened to be in town and had a lot of money. We came in and lifted the siege from the sahaugin and saved the town yet still they wanted payment for the most trivial of services. A tavern doesn't need to make money by charging people who might happen to do business there, they make money by selling food and beverages to the people there. Trust me they made a lot of money selling that high priced swill (I probably spent close to a gold there myself). Then when I want to hire a guide for an expedition who also happened to be a paying customer who was drinking in the tavern they want 1/10th of the total price of the contract just because we happened to be drinking in their establishment when we shook hands? That's absurd. People make deals and do business in taverns all the time, and any tavern keeper who seeks to charge for that is a greedy ***.
These are mostly IP thoughts even though it's an out of game thread. I actually liked the fact that Bayside felt so different and they were all such greedy scumbags, because it built up a different culture in a part of the game world that we hadn't been before and made it feel unique. Thorgrim absolutely hates the place and will never step foot in that town if he can help it. That being said if the NPC's started acting like that in New Acarthia and trying to swindle adventurers left and right, it would make it a much less pleasant place to stay.
These are mostly IP thoughts even though it's an out of game thread. I actually liked the fact that Bayside felt so different and they were all such greedy scumbags, because it built up a different culture in a part of the game world that we hadn't been before and made it feel unique. Thorgrim absolutely hates the place and will never step foot in that town if he can help it. That being said if the NPC's started acting like that in New Acarthia and trying to swindle adventurers left and right, it would make it a much less pleasant place to stay.
Klandaghi
Apprentice
This post is from my personal thoughts and is not a reflection of what Plot, the Merchants Guild, or anyone else officially related to the game thinks. Just putting this out here first. These are my thoughts as a member of the discussion.
It isn't meant to be funny. It's nice that people like to pretend that there isn't a world that needs commerce to thrive, but stating that NPCs don't have a right to ask for shares of business happening in their establishment is rather unreasonable in my eyes if you're disrupting the whole tavern to do it. Individual quests parties, it's small business, no big deal and they're not pulling attention to themselves past the action at their small table. The example above, maybe talk about the contract more quietly or move it outside to shake on it in the future. That's like complaining about being caught in conspiring while doing it in front of the Sheriff. When you are calling attention to yourself in the establishment and expect people to behave according to your wishes, that's like going to an Outback Steak House and expecting them to be cool while you try to hold a voice auction... not really the place for it. Harry does have his business that he runs with established folks to sell their wares for coin and he gets some of that action. I understand the idea that the Tavern is a nice easy central place, but at the same time, every function, every auction that takes place there is with the good graces of Master Deepjuggs. There's a bit of a problem when people forget that there are People filling out the world and having to make a living as well.
The Merchants guild is going to try to maintain prices at market value, but as a merchant's guild they're not going to just roll over cause a PC doesn't want to pay as much. That isn't a living breathing world and certainly not the kind of game I'd want to play in. The idea behind market value is to allow PCs to make solid money via production if desired. Expecting an establishment to buy over market and sell under market is just crazy in and of itself. You can't have an economy without a level of Greed and if you think only players are allowed to request money to make things happen that's crazy. To be clear when I state a cut of the action I'm not talking a full share of the loot. I'm stating that if you're going to be shouting in the Tavern disturbing his business to sell a Magical Sword of Pike Slaying (TM) that a fee making it back to Deepjuggs would not be an unreasonable request. You could hold it outside and not disturb his patrons, but you don't cause you have more possible auction participants among his patrons. Has anyone specifically asked Master Deepjuggs how he feels about people shouting and selling things in his Tavern? Has that consideration even be thought of? Sorry, but it is a slight OOG thing that has bothered me for a while but hasn't been my place to say anything about. We all conduct business as if no characters aside from PCs need to make a living and it's all about us PCs and then we wonder why we don't always get good information when we're not willing to try to earn it through coin, tasks, or trust. In a port town known for being of the mind "money makes the world go round" no one really wanted to part with coin to try to get information. Are you surprised that they tried to swindle what they could. I feel like we're seeing the two extremes presently. There are shades of grey between the white and the black that is being mentioned here. I'm not trying to push it to the far extreme of pay the NPC 10% for each item... That's a bit out there, but even a 1% fee on Auctions that go over a Gold is not that much to have to cough up for disrupting the environment or having the convenience of a warm shelter from the elements while you conduct your business.
It isn't meant to be funny. It's nice that people like to pretend that there isn't a world that needs commerce to thrive, but stating that NPCs don't have a right to ask for shares of business happening in their establishment is rather unreasonable in my eyes if you're disrupting the whole tavern to do it. Individual quests parties, it's small business, no big deal and they're not pulling attention to themselves past the action at their small table. The example above, maybe talk about the contract more quietly or move it outside to shake on it in the future. That's like complaining about being caught in conspiring while doing it in front of the Sheriff. When you are calling attention to yourself in the establishment and expect people to behave according to your wishes, that's like going to an Outback Steak House and expecting them to be cool while you try to hold a voice auction... not really the place for it. Harry does have his business that he runs with established folks to sell their wares for coin and he gets some of that action. I understand the idea that the Tavern is a nice easy central place, but at the same time, every function, every auction that takes place there is with the good graces of Master Deepjuggs. There's a bit of a problem when people forget that there are People filling out the world and having to make a living as well.
The Merchants guild is going to try to maintain prices at market value, but as a merchant's guild they're not going to just roll over cause a PC doesn't want to pay as much. That isn't a living breathing world and certainly not the kind of game I'd want to play in. The idea behind market value is to allow PCs to make solid money via production if desired. Expecting an establishment to buy over market and sell under market is just crazy in and of itself. You can't have an economy without a level of Greed and if you think only players are allowed to request money to make things happen that's crazy. To be clear when I state a cut of the action I'm not talking a full share of the loot. I'm stating that if you're going to be shouting in the Tavern disturbing his business to sell a Magical Sword of Pike Slaying (TM) that a fee making it back to Deepjuggs would not be an unreasonable request. You could hold it outside and not disturb his patrons, but you don't cause you have more possible auction participants among his patrons. Has anyone specifically asked Master Deepjuggs how he feels about people shouting and selling things in his Tavern? Has that consideration even be thought of? Sorry, but it is a slight OOG thing that has bothered me for a while but hasn't been my place to say anything about. We all conduct business as if no characters aside from PCs need to make a living and it's all about us PCs and then we wonder why we don't always get good information when we're not willing to try to earn it through coin, tasks, or trust. In a port town known for being of the mind "money makes the world go round" no one really wanted to part with coin to try to get information. Are you surprised that they tried to swindle what they could. I feel like we're seeing the two extremes presently. There are shades of grey between the white and the black that is being mentioned here. I'm not trying to push it to the far extreme of pay the NPC 10% for each item... That's a bit out there, but even a 1% fee on Auctions that go over a Gold is not that much to have to cough up for disrupting the environment or having the convenience of a warm shelter from the elements while you conduct your business.
Eadar
Adept
Naw, The tavern gets business by people being there doing things. Saying that an auction needs to give a cut to the Tavern is akin to saying we can't make battle plans there either - also normal adventuring business. It's not cutting into anything the Tavern offers there (Food, Drink).
The crux of the point OOG is, we need to foster community. Right now the loot bag and it being not screwed with helps with that. Screwing with it, regardless of the reasoning, while its in its starting fragile state, just works against it - and the community. Having to move auctions outside is just plain annoying, and again works against the convenience and forwarding of our game's community.
We have enough greed running around that to have to give a cut to X NPCs from everyone's pockets whose till is just sent back into NPC camp is just flat nonsense. It's unnecessary for the health of the game. I got the worst and strangest looks from people in person, and lots of wtf comments from people in text when I explain how much the Guilds charge for things. Right now the only thing that charges reasonable rates is the tavern. I've not heard of any taverns charging for auctions being held there, and I just asked people who attend multiple games (including NERO). So it's not even a normal game thing.
Market Value isn't in question here. Double production value is fair now that we actually loot enough coin to be able to afford it. It is absolutely unreasonable to charge a fee for something we can do outside, or at another building, and not pay for the Tavern's beverages/food (IG or OOG) at. Pushing this idea IG will only create IG animosity, move the auctions elsewhere, and end up with people in rez circles. We have enough problems working against the community atmosphere.
If you want to help the Tavern out because they've been gracious, pick up a shift in the kitchen. THAT is needed much more than imaginary coin going to an NPC that goes back to NPC camp.
The crux of the point OOG is, we need to foster community. Right now the loot bag and it being not screwed with helps with that. Screwing with it, regardless of the reasoning, while its in its starting fragile state, just works against it - and the community. Having to move auctions outside is just plain annoying, and again works against the convenience and forwarding of our game's community.
We have enough greed running around that to have to give a cut to X NPCs from everyone's pockets whose till is just sent back into NPC camp is just flat nonsense. It's unnecessary for the health of the game. I got the worst and strangest looks from people in person, and lots of wtf comments from people in text when I explain how much the Guilds charge for things. Right now the only thing that charges reasonable rates is the tavern. I've not heard of any taverns charging for auctions being held there, and I just asked people who attend multiple games (including NERO). So it's not even a normal game thing.
Market Value isn't in question here. Double production value is fair now that we actually loot enough coin to be able to afford it. It is absolutely unreasonable to charge a fee for something we can do outside, or at another building, and not pay for the Tavern's beverages/food (IG or OOG) at. Pushing this idea IG will only create IG animosity, move the auctions elsewhere, and end up with people in rez circles. We have enough problems working against the community atmosphere.
If you want to help the Tavern out because they've been gracious, pick up a shift in the kitchen. THAT is needed much more than imaginary coin going to an NPC that goes back to NPC camp.
Thorgrim
Apprentice
I think one thing people don't realize is just how rich adventurers are compared to everyone else. The average commoner probably only makes a few copper a day. A 3 room house in this world only costs about 15 gold. If you took all the money that was in the loot sack from last event before dividing it up you could probably buy a keep/castle, and we made that in 3 days. I personally spend about 3 silver in Deepjugg's per event. This doesn't seem like a ton of money to us as adventurers because we're filthy rich, but that's a week's worth of pay for most folks or 2% of the cost of a home. When you start considering that places in Bayside were charging us more than a day's wage for a shot of whiskey you quickly realize that we were getting ripped off.
Adventuring is dangerous work. We go out and get ourselves cut, bludgeoned, bit, clawed, set on fire, and all kinds of horrible things and put our lives on the line all the time. One of the rewards for doing this is having a lot more money than your average New Acarthian citizen. We pay higher prices than most folks because we can afford it. If Deepjugg makes 5 gold in a weekend, he's absolutely killing it by this world's standards. Most tavern keepers in this world are probably lucky to make more than a couple gold in a month. It may not seem like much to us because we have so much by comparison, but that's because we live a life of incredible danger and have a set of skills far beyond that of your typical citizen.
Adventuring is dangerous work. We go out and get ourselves cut, bludgeoned, bit, clawed, set on fire, and all kinds of horrible things and put our lives on the line all the time. One of the rewards for doing this is having a lot more money than your average New Acarthian citizen. We pay higher prices than most folks because we can afford it. If Deepjugg makes 5 gold in a weekend, he's absolutely killing it by this world's standards. Most tavern keepers in this world are probably lucky to make more than a couple gold in a month. It may not seem like much to us because we have so much by comparison, but that's because we live a life of incredible danger and have a set of skills far beyond that of your typical citizen.
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Klandaghi
Apprentice
OK, I can see the OOG concerns with the tavern and "Loot Sack" isn't what the discussion is about actually, it was an off the cuff remark regarding placement of business and how it is conducted. If you want the interactions to be seen as how it benefits game as opposed to how would a person run their business then it makes more sense. And I do see the idea of "It brings in customers" but I can just as easily see the regulars that come through when the adventurers are not around as being spooked out by such a noisy bunch. The world is more then PCs is all I'm getting at. I'm not looking to mess with "Loot Sack" at all, just pointing out things that have seemed out of place to me.
Back on Topic, Merchants Guild: The concept of silent auction from the Merchants guild is interesting to me, but I also think that doing so would slow down the System of "Loot Sack" and it would probably be best to keep it contained to as few interactions as possible. For those wondering, I'm using quotes till we have a generally accepted and happy term for it, I've heard grumbles over that specific terminology. Also not the topic at hand. There is the concept of protection of the loot and people distributing and calculating while inside a ward, but I could see the merchants guild getting annoyed at their establishment being taken over by people trying to effectively conduct business around them instead of through them in an IG sense. OOG that's a tiny space. Maybe good for conducting business with the groups to then split coin after as desired, but I'm not sure I'd make it a go to. I personally wouldn't mind a sort of gaming atmosphere starting up in the Merchants Guild again, poker night was fun, but I'd like to see some more games come out as well.
Back on Topic, Merchants Guild: The concept of silent auction from the Merchants guild is interesting to me, but I also think that doing so would slow down the System of "Loot Sack" and it would probably be best to keep it contained to as few interactions as possible. For those wondering, I'm using quotes till we have a generally accepted and happy term for it, I've heard grumbles over that specific terminology. Also not the topic at hand. There is the concept of protection of the loot and people distributing and calculating while inside a ward, but I could see the merchants guild getting annoyed at their establishment being taken over by people trying to effectively conduct business around them instead of through them in an IG sense. OOG that's a tiny space. Maybe good for conducting business with the groups to then split coin after as desired, but I'm not sure I'd make it a go to. I personally wouldn't mind a sort of gaming atmosphere starting up in the Merchants Guild again, poker night was fun, but I'd like to see some more games come out as well.
Eadar
Adept
"Everyone else" actually makes money, even if its 3 copper. It seems adventurers lose money unless they're lucky with mods, not sharing, or ripping people off. From speaking with 30 some odd people, most spend more in potions/consumables than they get out of loot save rare occasions. Last event was the first event I did not hear "Omg how am I gonna pay for this" when they lost their weapons due to acidic skin. I'd really wonder how well we'd be doing right now if it wasn't for GS and DS. I know I'd be broke, weapon or shieldless, and potionless without GS, DS, and visiting another game.
Regardless this is more of an OOG perspective about keeping as many positive feel good things in the community possible, not really IG logistical financial concerns. When the adventurers start chucking gold at goblins to get them to go away so they don't interrupt their sun bathing time, then start asking for kickbacks. When people are worried about how theyre going to replace their gear from the last fight they just lost gear to, it's not the time to try and bring in hidden charges for adventuring.
Towards utilizing the Merchant's Guild for the silent auction - there should be some charge as they are essentially, doing the work of the auction, watching the list or taking in bids, answering stupid questions, etc. Essentially they get paid for the PCs to be somewhat lazy.
Traceroo
Prodigy
- Outback Steakhouse does not ask you to bus your own table and bring your dishes to the window.
- Outback Steakhouse does not lay in wait for you to deliver an angry lecture if you don't bus your own table.
- Outback Steakhouse does not refuse to tell you what's on the menu because it prefers to enjoy the surprise for its own pleasure.
- Outback Steakhouse does not run out of food after you've already paid for it, and then give you attitude in response to your complaints about that.
- Outback Steakhouse employees do not get an exemption from the dresscode enforced on its patrons; i.e., if NPCs get the coolest, highest level skills in the game that even PCs don't yet have, please wear your racial makeup when you leave the tavern and go to field battles. We have to. So should you.
- Outback Steakhouse does not have a monopoly on food service, like Taco Bell in "Demolition Man", thus enforcing the system of follow our rules or go hungry.
- Even Outback Steakhouse will respond to the complaints of its patrons.
I think this Outback Steakhouse metaphor is about as dead as that horse is gonna get, and we can stop making this comparison now.
Trace
Klandaghi
Apprentice
I'd like to apologize for the landmine that I placed in this conversation. I didn't realize that my choice of words would have a reoccurring reaction and effect and I think that my poor choice of words has steered us of the topic that we are looking at. I'd like to thank Porch and Trace for taking the time to talk with me regarding their viewpoints, helping me understand them in a manner that did not spiral this conversation off topic as it was held away from this forum and being the awesome people that they are! I realize that there is room for improvement all around and really all we can do is keep trying to improve our game all around. I'd like to move back to the Merchant's guild as the focus of this topic and if the landmine should trip once more, I might be editing my post to remove the comment and asking folks to remove or redact their statements. I'd personally rather NOT do that as this is important conversation and viewpoints and it contains feedback that can be helpful to the growth of our game. Perhaps we should have a thread on what we can do in the tavern and discuss the different view points surrounding it as long as it can stay a constructive conversation on all sides. My goal isn't to point out what isn't working and attempting to get people upset. The goal is the same goal I think we all have. To have an enjoyable game that we can all go to, leave from, and feel not only a sense of adventure, but satisfaction as well. Actually, this brings up something of an important part of most towns and cities that I kind of feel like we are missing in game... I think I'll start a new thread on that actually to try to keep this thread on the Merchants Guild.
Re: Merchant's Guild prices
Goblin Points are the major competition with the Merchant's Guild and PC crafters. Why pay full price when you can pay production? It is very rare for items to go for anything more than cost which is ridiculous and no way to run an economy. I think as coin gets more plentiful people will value items more and this standard will change... BUT I think its a huge mistake for NPC organizations to fail to respond to the economic realities of the game. PCs aren't going to pay 6 silver for a longsword, there simply isn't enough demand relative to supply to justify that cost. Some PCs WILL pay more than production value, the question is what that sweet spot is.
I think the biggest opportunity for money making in game is selling and buying strengthened and silvered weapons. No one in their right mind is going to pay full production cost for a strengthened weapon. I can make an Indestructible Weapon given the current game economy for less than a Strengthened weapon's base cost. This is a problem with the rules and a problem with the way PCs value components and scrolls. Regardless this is an economic reality of the game. The merchant's guild should be exploiting this economic reality.
Most players (myself included) would be thrilled to sell strengthened weapons for less than their production cost. I know getting 3 gold for a strengthened longsword would make be very happy. If the merchants guild can find a happy medium between what people are willing to sell these items for and what people are willing to buy them for they can make a profit. They will not successfully sell these items if they try to sell them for double production cost. I can say with certainty no PC is going to buy them at that price.
Goblin Points are the major competition with the Merchant's Guild and PC crafters. Why pay full price when you can pay production? It is very rare for items to go for anything more than cost which is ridiculous and no way to run an economy. I think as coin gets more plentiful people will value items more and this standard will change... BUT I think its a huge mistake for NPC organizations to fail to respond to the economic realities of the game. PCs aren't going to pay 6 silver for a longsword, there simply isn't enough demand relative to supply to justify that cost. Some PCs WILL pay more than production value, the question is what that sweet spot is.
I think the biggest opportunity for money making in game is selling and buying strengthened and silvered weapons. No one in their right mind is going to pay full production cost for a strengthened weapon. I can make an Indestructible Weapon given the current game economy for less than a Strengthened weapon's base cost. This is a problem with the rules and a problem with the way PCs value components and scrolls. Regardless this is an economic reality of the game. The merchant's guild should be exploiting this economic reality.
Most players (myself included) would be thrilled to sell strengthened weapons for less than their production cost. I know getting 3 gold for a strengthened longsword would make be very happy. If the merchants guild can find a happy medium between what people are willing to sell these items for and what people are willing to buy them for they can make a profit. They will not successfully sell these items if they try to sell them for double production cost. I can say with certainty no PC is going to buy them at that price.
Thorgrim
Apprentice
Back on the topic of the merchant's guild I have a question. What is the OOP purpose of the merchant's guild? Obviously IP the purpose is for merchants to find a place to sell their wares and make money, but the merchants who sell items at the merchants guild are not PC's. They definitely serve an OOP function in providing a place for adventurers to sell their unwanted wares like that short axe you got from that goblin 2 months ago that you're never going to use, or to purchase a long sword if you can't find Radulfr after a bug ate your last one, but the latter actually hurts the in game economy from the players' perspective because its easier to walk up and pay 6 silver to the merchant's guild than track down the local blacksmith and put in an order and hope he has it in stock.
So here's a thought I had, what if the merchant's guild was willing to pay more for items coming in than standard production cost? The merchant's guild doesn't need to mark things up 100% for it to be successful (after all none of their profits are going to PC's), and what they sell to adventurers in New Acarthia during gathers is most certainly just a small part of their overall revenue. So what if rather than paying adventurers production cost for items, they pay adventurers 1.8 x production cost for items, and then offer those same items up for sale for 2 x production cost? This would be beneficial in a couple of ways. One it would allow people to monetize their trade skills more easily without having to try and find individual buyers among the player base. If I want to use my production to craft 2 long swords, I could sell them to the merchant's guild for 108 copper, which is 48 more copper than my production cost. I could try and sell them to another PC for 120 copper which is twice the production value, but I'm willing to forgo the extra 12 copper for the sake of convenience. The merchant's guild can then sell the item to adventurers for 120 copper still earning a percentage, and everybody wins. The next benefit this has is it allows PC crafted items to all be in a centralized location where you know you can go to buy something without having to track down certain individuals. If you want to broker a deal with an individual for say a silver long sword, you can still do that, and maybe get a slight discount versus what you would pay at the merchant's guild, but if you just want the convenience of being able to walk up and buy available inventory, the merchant's guild has that covered. Finally, it means that we would get more money from loot sack for selling our unwanted items, because we now get paid 1.8 x their production value rather than just straight up production value. The merchant guild loses out in this instance, but once again this goes back to my original question of what is the purpose of the merchant's guild OOP? If it's to provide a place to facilitate transactions for a variety of goods and services for the PC's then it would be accomplishing that goal, albeit at a smaller profit margin. If the goal of the merchant's guild is just to make money, then maybe not so much, but that doesn't serve the needs of the player base.
So here's a thought I had, what if the merchant's guild was willing to pay more for items coming in than standard production cost? The merchant's guild doesn't need to mark things up 100% for it to be successful (after all none of their profits are going to PC's), and what they sell to adventurers in New Acarthia during gathers is most certainly just a small part of their overall revenue. So what if rather than paying adventurers production cost for items, they pay adventurers 1.8 x production cost for items, and then offer those same items up for sale for 2 x production cost? This would be beneficial in a couple of ways. One it would allow people to monetize their trade skills more easily without having to try and find individual buyers among the player base. If I want to use my production to craft 2 long swords, I could sell them to the merchant's guild for 108 copper, which is 48 more copper than my production cost. I could try and sell them to another PC for 120 copper which is twice the production value, but I'm willing to forgo the extra 12 copper for the sake of convenience. The merchant's guild can then sell the item to adventurers for 120 copper still earning a percentage, and everybody wins. The next benefit this has is it allows PC crafted items to all be in a centralized location where you know you can go to buy something without having to track down certain individuals. If you want to broker a deal with an individual for say a silver long sword, you can still do that, and maybe get a slight discount versus what you would pay at the merchant's guild, but if you just want the convenience of being able to walk up and buy available inventory, the merchant's guild has that covered. Finally, it means that we would get more money from loot sack for selling our unwanted items, because we now get paid 1.8 x their production value rather than just straight up production value. The merchant guild loses out in this instance, but once again this goes back to my original question of what is the purpose of the merchant's guild OOP? If it's to provide a place to facilitate transactions for a variety of goods and services for the PC's then it would be accomplishing that goal, albeit at a smaller profit margin. If the goal of the merchant's guild is just to make money, then maybe not so much, but that doesn't serve the needs of the player base.
Thorgrim
Apprentice
Yes I agree that goblin stamps are competition for the merchant's guild, but I also think that things come up in game where you aren't going to be able to use goblin stamps to get what you need, like when that acid bug dissolves your long sword on Friday night. The problem is that most of the time you can just find a PC to basically give you one at cost or close to it because in some instances the PC's are too generous and it hurts any attempt to establish an in game economy by creating a market with stable prices.
Strengthen is just completely broken because it's entirely too expensive. I could make 20 short swords for the cost of strengthening 1 short sword. Even strengthening a silvered weapon isn't worth it. I could make 3 silver short swords for 525 copper. To make 1 strengthened silver short sword would cost me 675 copper. Sure there's a slight advantage of being able to keep using it during a battle, but is it worth 150 copper? I don't think so.