I think the skill used to create the coating should be the skill used to apply the coating. This streamlines things and gets rid of exceptions. Not to mention, evens up the whole spell store thing.
Potion Coating Clarification
- Thread starter AlikVanmil
- Start date
Draven
Count
This would be an exception all by itself. Even if you don't have the skill to make a high PP coating, you don't need that much skill to apply it.
I'd be cool with the idea of 1 purchase of Create Potion being needed for Potion Coating, however.
Perhaps 1 rank of Alchemy OR 1 rank of Create Potion?
That way alchemists and earth casters have easy access to what would be a great magic item for both of them.
Times per day? Wouldn't it act like alchemical coatings in that you can apply them as often as needed? IMHO that is the only way this ritual is truly worth spending the time and resources to acquire.
Draven
Count
Since it's designed to work with Poison Cache, I'm....actually a little surprised it's times per day, myself.
As for 1 Rank of either/or, nah, I'm not really okay with that. You can hand your sword to a potion maker to store some potions for later use, just like an E Caster would need to hand his weapon to an alchemist to poison it for later use.
Want the best of both worlds? You should have to spend some build on that.
AlikVanmil
Newbie
Woa hold on, it was never stated that it was times per day. I had just posed it as a question. The only actual answer I've gotten in relation to that question was that "No it wouldn't be because it doesn't state in the effect that it is times per day." and furthermore it doesn't say that you need ranks in anything to apply it. Seeing that in the rules it says that anyone can use potions and that hasn't been changed, it would stand to reason that anyone could apply a potion to the weapon that has this effect on it.
Draven
Count
Potion Coating - The Potion Coating Ritual allows an Earth Potion to be applied to a weapon in the same manner as a contact poison. These are delivered with the Spell qualifier. This Ritual may be combined with other Rituals as appropriate.
This would imply that even though a potion is being used, it otherwise follows the same mechanics and rules for applying contact poison, which would currently require 1 rank of Alchemy.
Sage of Legaia
Rogue
I would also interpret the ritual as necessitating a rank in Alchemy to successfully apply a Potion.
I think of it this way: needing a rank in Alchemy to apply poison to a weapon isn't just because you need to know how to make Alchemy, it's because part of Alchemy training is learning how to handle contact poisons properly without harming yourself or others accidentally. In much the same way, this training is needed to apply a Potion so that it is effective when slathered all over a weapon.
Because Potions normally can't be used this way, Create Potion includes no training in this procedure and attempting it without that training results in wasting the Potion (either through spilling it during application or simply applying it incorrectly).
I think of it this way: needing a rank in Alchemy to apply poison to a weapon isn't just because you need to know how to make Alchemy, it's because part of Alchemy training is learning how to handle contact poisons properly without harming yourself or others accidentally. In much the same way, this training is needed to apply a Potion so that it is effective when slathered all over a weapon.
Because Potions normally can't be used this way, Create Potion includes no training in this procedure and attempting it without that training results in wasting the Potion (either through spilling it during application or simply applying it incorrectly).
I'm a rules as written person. If it doesn't specifically say I need a rank of alchemy to apply a potion I'm applying the potion. I'm not inferring or interpreting anything. Clearly written, specific rules, not inference or interpretation of intent is what we need.
There are many places where we reference one rule from another. For example, in 2.0, Backstab and Back Attack both say they must be done "from behind", which has its own definition elsewhere in the rulebook. We do not repeat the "from behind" definition in each location (that's how, over the years, they get slightly out of sync).
In this case, since the rule as written says "in the same manner as a contact poison", then all rules around contact poisons can safely be assumed to be in effect. We will not repeat sections of the rulebook when they are directly referenced by the text of a rule.
The same can be said for other parts of the rulebook. If something is said to have an equivalence, you should be able to rely on that equivalence in all ways that are not otherwise excepted.
Edit: To expand a little on this, this helps keep things consistent. Imagine the alternative - that the text of Potion Coating directly repeated "you need a rank of Alchemy, it takes 3 seconds to apply, you can only have one at a time, it goes off on the first swing, etc. etc." and spelled out all the Contact Poison rules explicitly. Then, later on down the line, we change Contact Poisons so that they last until landed, instead of the first swing, but we missed this part of the ritual text. Now they're inconsistent.
This has directly happened in multiple places over the years with many Alliance rulebook items that were meant to be kept the same but got repeated throughout the rulebook. We're trying to fix a number of these items in 2.0, and this is a good example where "same manner as a contact poison" should be read exactly as it says so we don't have to worry about one copy of a piece of rules text being missed in the future.
-Bryan
In this case, since the rule as written says "in the same manner as a contact poison", then all rules around contact poisons can safely be assumed to be in effect. We will not repeat sections of the rulebook when they are directly referenced by the text of a rule.
The same can be said for other parts of the rulebook. If something is said to have an equivalence, you should be able to rely on that equivalence in all ways that are not otherwise excepted.
Edit: To expand a little on this, this helps keep things consistent. Imagine the alternative - that the text of Potion Coating directly repeated "you need a rank of Alchemy, it takes 3 seconds to apply, you can only have one at a time, it goes off on the first swing, etc. etc." and spelled out all the Contact Poison rules explicitly. Then, later on down the line, we change Contact Poisons so that they last until landed, instead of the first swing, but we missed this part of the ritual text. Now they're inconsistent.
This has directly happened in multiple places over the years with many Alliance rulebook items that were meant to be kept the same but got repeated throughout the rulebook. We're trying to fix a number of these items in 2.0, and this is a good example where "same manner as a contact poison" should be read exactly as it says so we don't have to worry about one copy of a piece of rules text being missed in the future.
-Bryan
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Draven
Count
I'm sure you probably don't mean this to be, but your statement is fairly combative in tone (intentional or not).
The ritual states that it's applied as a poison. The RAW have requirements for the application of a poison (Alchemy 1). As a Marshal, if this ritual were out as written, and you informed Marshals that you'd do it how you interpreted it anyways, you'd probably have a bad time.
So, take it down a bit in tone, please. We're not trying to argue with you, simply provide our input.
Muir
Fighter
From a design standpoint, I read this ritual as being far more aimed at Rogues than Earth Casters in the first place.
AlikVanmil
Newbie
Thank you very much for the clarification.
EDIT: I believe this thread can be locked now, as the inquiry has been answered.
PYKE
Adept
I would like to see potion cache. There is a poison cache which lets you strike when you want to. Having a sword that has potion cache should also be there. Or not have the other. Which I don't like cause I like the poison cache scroll. I use a spell strike healing sword and this would replace it
AlikVanmil
Newbie
You actually can combine potion coating and poison cache.