Productionists
- Thread starter Ash
- Start date
Libras
Scholar
Hi, my name is No Effect to Alchemy.evi1r0n said:I cherish the production folks at the two chapters I play. I almost exclusively buy from characters when possible. Enough alchemy can drop any PC. I mean any PC. In my experience alchemists are deadly, especially ones skilled enough to resupply quickly.
At minimum, I would like any unused production points to be used for copper so in a worst-case scenario it's not wasted build.
Ideally, I would like there to be some type of pool equal to your production points to be used for effects unique to the productionist. Off the top of my head for effects: throwable potions (uses an orange packet), reusable coating "auras", special deliveries from spells read from a scroll, emulating minor ritual effects on any weapon you've created and currently wielding, etc. (Wish I had a good example for Create Trap. Maybe emulate minor traps with a smaller arming time?) Again, only the productionist would get these benefits.
dragonfire8974
Scout
I was actually thinking about a coating for blades using potions available for people with alchemy and potion making, and yeah, throwable potions.
I don't think those would be all that unbalancing, but i don't know, i haven't been around for more than a year yet
I don't think those would be all that unbalancing, but i don't know, i haven't been around for more than a year yet
Anazstaizia
Newbie
I have seen potions and scrolls both used to good effect in the SF chapter. Enough of our Earth Scholars are potion-makers that many people have several healing potions on them at any given time. When everyone can bring the healer back up, it means people bleed out and resurrect far less often. You never, ever want to be caught with your healer unconscious and out of potions, and no one else having any, either. Scrolls are of limited usefulness, true, but oftentimes they are best for those weird spells that rarely come up and aren't worth memorizing regularly. Wall of force, some of the bindomancy, shatters and disarms(in SF we deal with a lot of body weaponry), and it never hurts to have backup dispels for those nasty prisons. Dragon's Breath scrolls are also great. You can turn relatively low-level Celestial Scholars into gold-fed miniguns of fiery doom.
Now, I wouldn't complain at all if they were buffed, but they can be effective in their current form.
Now, I wouldn't complain at all if they were buffed, but they can be effective in their current form.
What if potent craftfolk were required for the casting or maximized casting of some rituals? For example, Arcane Armor required the assistance of a skilled blacksmith to create a suit larger than 15 points, Celestial Enchant rituals gained extra charges with a journeyman or master scroll maker helping out or a master potion brewer could use Skill Store rits to create potions of racial skills, such as resist element or break command.
Libras
Scholar
I think the ritual system is too ingrained to alter in that way, plus it would necessitate crafters. Crafters should get a consistent, optional benefit for themselves. Others already reap the benefit of crafters by having their stock available to them via friendship, trade/barter/purchase, or theft. As I see it, crafters are currently "old rules" ritualists without the heavy, but overall useful, prerequisites.Dan Nickname Beshers said:
AllianceCHI
Baron
Or just implementing a system like the ritual magic system that allows for the creation of unique items.
It would have to be tracked as treasure or perhaps could involve some ritual magic components to really place a limit on how many batches of the item could be created per year but the more levels you have the more of the item you can make.
For example, It would be cool to have a liquid luck potion.... like a 1/ever dodge, or a ward scroll or a bunch of other cool ideas so long as it was limited in the same fashion ritual magic is and these abilities stayed weaker and more situational than ritual magic.
It would have to be tracked as treasure or perhaps could involve some ritual magic components to really place a limit on how many batches of the item could be created per year but the more levels you have the more of the item you can make.
For example, It would be cool to have a liquid luck potion.... like a 1/ever dodge, or a ward scroll or a bunch of other cool ideas so long as it was limited in the same fashion ritual magic is and these abilities stayed weaker and more situational than ritual magic.
kittenpunk2
Scholar
AllianceCHI said:
it might be cool if there taking on some of the harder to get to spells or skills or ability such as
resist potions/scrolls
dodge...
shadow walk....
might also be cool if you just up-ed what they got. such as making a grater (X) potions/scrolls
by witch i mean take something like bless make a grater bless potions it gives you 10 more health rather then 5
or a grater endow potions rather then letting you swing for 1 more one time, or making a 3 counts a 1 counts, and being used up, it would take on a 10 min affect, you swing harder by 1 for 10 mins, or a 10 secant count is now an instant....
you would want to limit it to making altered versions of some of the lowest rungs, such as a light spell make s a glow stick worth of light,
if a grater light was creative you could have a lanterns worth of magical light
a magic armor blacks one hit, a grater magic armor potions could let you take 1 or 2 less damage per hit for 10 mins or something.....
the creation of grater scrolls or potions could require the use of spell components (mind you this would affect the economy too) or even require a workshop just to make one of, batching would re quire teamwork between more then one Productionists working together or something of the like.
Libras said:
There's nothing saying you couldn't make production items part of the required components for a ritual, and exceptional rituals taking exceptionally crafted components to do so.
If an armor ritual actually consumed a suit of the same cost in points, for example to cast- or a damage aura consumed a well-crafted sword or hammer to give the magic an form to put on the enchanted weapon.
Libras
Scholar
That doesn't reward crafters. It necessitates them and punishes ritualists who just got a well-deserved buff. The demand created by your proposal is artificial and obligates at least one PC to fulfill that role. Ritualists were in the same "obligated role" boat a few years ago and now you can find a ritualist because ritual levels are good even when not performing rituals.Talen said:
Just buff crafters, period.
Sym of Moria
Scholar
Currently the system does need some tuning up.
The most broken factor is the fact that Armor no longer breaches.
Also there is no wear and tear on weapons.
So I can purchase 2 swords and adventure with those 2 weapons for years at a time and not have them break down on me. In essence whats the point of Strengthening a weapon (unless you run into the occasional rust type mosnter , or a shatter storm.
Blacksmiths (dedicated) have become almost useless.
I think any weapon made in game should have an expiration date(goes dull, or pomel finally gives out and needs repair/replace or something to the sort) unless its been rentered or magical or strengthened. (again my opinion)
Armor again same thing. It would stimulate the economy (in game) some if Armor was breachable again. You dont see too many people looking to purchase armor any more like it was previously.
The most you see Blacksmiths working on is Arrows and bolts or the occasional thrown weapon and of course the silvering of weapons. Rarely is a blacksmith commision to craft strengthened weapons.
Again this is just an opinion....
You dont see too many mages out there (on the bad guys side) throwing shatter storms, or destroy storms .... you dont see enemy fighters using Shatter weapons in combat ... usually you see disarms or slays and evicerates but not shatters.
Production craftman skills needs some serious overhauls.
Scroll makers got the biggest boost (being able to read scrolls in the dark without light (at 20 levels and using any level scroll even if you dont have the minimum to cast it)
The 1 less cost in production is a nice start for those serious crafters but I think, the other crafters need better benefits for the dedication to their craft.
my 2 cents
Onitt
The most broken factor is the fact that Armor no longer breaches.
Also there is no wear and tear on weapons.
So I can purchase 2 swords and adventure with those 2 weapons for years at a time and not have them break down on me. In essence whats the point of Strengthening a weapon (unless you run into the occasional rust type mosnter , or a shatter storm.
Blacksmiths (dedicated) have become almost useless.
I think any weapon made in game should have an expiration date(goes dull, or pomel finally gives out and needs repair/replace or something to the sort) unless its been rentered or magical or strengthened. (again my opinion)
Armor again same thing. It would stimulate the economy (in game) some if Armor was breachable again. You dont see too many people looking to purchase armor any more like it was previously.
The most you see Blacksmiths working on is Arrows and bolts or the occasional thrown weapon and of course the silvering of weapons. Rarely is a blacksmith commision to craft strengthened weapons.
Again this is just an opinion....
You dont see too many mages out there (on the bad guys side) throwing shatter storms, or destroy storms .... you dont see enemy fighters using Shatter weapons in combat ... usually you see disarms or slays and evicerates but not shatters.
Production craftman skills needs some serious overhauls.
Scroll makers got the biggest boost (being able to read scrolls in the dark without light (at 20 levels and using any level scroll even if you dont have the minimum to cast it)
The 1 less cost in production is a nice start for those serious crafters but I think, the other crafters need better benefits for the dedication to their craft.
my 2 cents
Onitt
Libras said:
So instead of spending the money on X component, spending the same money on Y crafted item as the component is punishment?
Either way, you're spending the money, and if for some arcane reason there are no PC crafters, NPC merchants exist for just such occasions.
While your at it, you could make those items a way to buff crafters, as well. An armor suit that requires constant care to keep in tip-top shape (ie multiple levels in smithing), but adds extra protection (up to the maximum armor value for a suit)- letting the smith use a lighter suit of armor for the same amount of protection. Weapons with an exceptionally keen edge or balance that have to be "refitted" by a smith after a battle. And if they're also ritual components, it's a win-win situation- the smith both has exceptional items and a good outlet to sell them.
NJ currently has a plotline out where we are putting out special production scrolls which are similar to ritual scrolls with their own unique effects. So far, the few characters with production have loved them. It was another way to reward productionists and to get coin back, as they need a treasure 'catalyst' to use it for one logistics, but can batch the item that logistics as much as their coin-purse's desire. We put a lot of time into making sure that they are unique in effect, but still weaker than ritual reagents.
Maxondaerth
Squire
If we went back to breaching armor, I'd much rather see it go to a system of "This suit of armor can be refit from 0 ten times before it becomes unusable" instead of the gradual -2 pt every time. Make it a tag like arrows with ten tabs and the value at the top, when you hit the top, get new suit. The progressive downgrade is really hard on low level characters.
dragonfire8974
Scout
but that punishes low level characters who can't afford arcane armor
tazoulti
Scholar
Besides, Arcane Armor cheeses off the blacksmiths.
I'd be in favor of this as well, because it makes sense that armor (and weapons) wear out over time. And it'd bring back some of that flow of coinage that was lost when breaching went out the window. Plus if you wanted to reward the characters who pumped up to Master level somewhat, you could have their armor creations last twenty times and thus make their armor more valued. (Of course, restricting the NPC Blacksmithed items limited to ten would also increase the master crafted items value a little bit more and change the flow the coinage that way too!)
Maxondaerth said:
I'd be in favor of this as well, because it makes sense that armor (and weapons) wear out over time. And it'd bring back some of that flow of coinage that was lost when breaching went out the window. Plus if you wanted to reward the characters who pumped up to Master level somewhat, you could have their armor creations last twenty times and thus make their armor more valued. (Of course, restricting the NPC Blacksmithed items limited to ten would also increase the master crafted items value a little bit more and change the flow the coinage that way too!)