Racial features: Ogres

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I have put up a proposal to change the colouring of Dark Elves (to me that is the most prominent). It requires a "Second" from any owner and then we put it up for a vote. it was just posted over the weekend, so the owners need to chime in on the subject in the Owner's group. So, once again, please speak to your Owners on this topic and ask them to chime in and then vote (if it goes to a vote mind you).
 
I think if it's such an issue, and in an effort to Keep Things Simple™, Elves should just work like current Sarr (and in 2.0 how Wylderkin) work - one baseline race with flavor based on chapter/player specific choices/culture. I do think that Racial Abilities for Elves should be baseline (the same) across all types though as that should only be something available to Wylderkin players, though I'd be open to discussion on that point.

If necessary, you can always prohibit types of Elves (i.e. disallow current Dark Elf make-up setups).
 
I'd not be against it Avaran, but I do think that's a much tougher sell than a simple coloration change. I've already given my preferences, but I'm mostly okay with any coloration change here.
 
I suggested. Blue for ogres- as a tattoo artist i see a load of japanese artwork and they are often depicted as blue or having a bluist cast to their skin. Oni often have black or red skin.

Also, I have avoided posting in this string after starting it. In a culture that is supposed to be welcoming; one in which we now have moved away from using "Gypsy" as it is culturally insensitive- I font think it is mucb to ask to eemove Black skin from the game. Many states it is illegal or at least frowned upon to wear makeup like this.

Also, following my original post if people go into a real life town with makeup on (loads of people do.) Fo you think the normal people (even people that might otherwise be interested in playing) think, "I am sure that isn't blackface.It must be a fantasy trope."

as someone stated before this hobby has a large percentage of white people playing it. Is black makeup on a race so important that a change that is cosmetic (which may seem insiginificant to you "Joe-average-white person") that you are willing to possibly be offensive?

I guess what I'm saying is the argument that I've heard many times (and I agree with) people not affected ny a racist/sexist/ablist thing don't get to say what isn't offensive.

For example white people don't get to say "blackface isn't offensive because it's just paint." Because we may not quite understand in many cases what it is like to have that same artifact of the history of hate looming over us.

Just my two cents. (and now the mockery and name calling?)
 
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Celebolwa said:
I guess what I'm saying is the argument that I've heard many times (and I agree with) people not affected ny a racist/sexist/ablist thing don't get to say what isn't offensive.
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I respectfully disagree with this sentiment (and find it offensive).

I think that invalidating someone's opinion because of their skin color, sex, religion, or any other excuse outside of reasoned discourse, logic, and sound arguments is oppressive and dismissive, no matter what "side" you're on.

Offense is always "taken" - never given - and as such is quite a personal reaction to something. And despite the above sentiment, I *DO* get to tell you - and everyone else - what *I* do and do not find offensive - and this goes for anyone. And conversely, anyone can tell me what they do and do not find offensive; who am I to dictate to another person what they should and should not find offensive? To say or do otherwise is absurd, dismissive, oppressive, and counter to having an Equal society.
 
So you get to decide what is or is not offensive to other people?

wow.

Also read what I actually wrote. What I wrote is "you don't get to decide what offends someone else." You do get decide what offends you.
 
I'm not saying that you aren't allowed to say what is offensive to you what I am saying is you are not allowed to tell other people what is offensive to them. Ypu can tell them ypur opinion but in the end they get to decide what offends them.


And once again I am done with these boards. Cant figure out why the numbers of players is dwindling. Conversations like this may be part of it. Just saying.

Out.
 
Celebolwa said:
So you get to decide what is or is not offensive to other people?

wow.

Also read what I actually wrote. What I wrote is "you don't get to decide what offends someone else." You do get decide what offends you.
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I'm not going to disagree or agree with you, but I do want to gently remind you that forums don't allow folks to convey the kind of body language and inflection that we would otherwise have in normal conversation. And I'm neither disagreeing or agreeing with @Avaran, but he quoted what you said, word for word. "what is or isn't offensive," and "what does or does not offend someone else" are two different statements. It's possible you meant one thing, and errantly said the other, because we're human and make mistakes.

I suspect you two aren't really all that against each other, even if you do have some differences of opinion, but you're both passionate about your opinions and are sensitive to this subject. Let's take a breath and be friends, yeah?
 
read the whole post. It is about telling someone else what is offensive- instructing them. It is implied. Many sentences have implied subjects, places, ownership and intended readers. That is what my statement is. I also clarified several times afterwards. Its fine. I'm done. I hope changes happen to help our game in many ways.

I thought trying to be honest, thoughtful, open and helpful would be met with a better reception.
 
Celebolwa said:
read the whole post. It is about telling someone else what is offensive- instructing them. It is implied. Many sentences have implied subjects, places, ownership and intended readers. That is what my statement is. I also clarified several times afterwards. Its fine. I'm done. I hope changes happen to help our game in many ways.

I thought trying to be honest, thoughtful, open and helpful would be met with a better reception.
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I read the whole post, and I believe I understood it fairly well. What I'm trying to say is that "implied meaning" is kinda unreliable; sure, it makes immediate sense to you, but it would, you wrote it. However, someone else might take your "implied meaning" completely differently. For example, right now I'm imagiing my tone to be gentle and sensitive, but you might take my tone as lecturing and condescending.

So, yeah, @Avaran likely didn't take your message at your intended meaning. But I, for one, am glad you participated in the conversation, and I hope you continue to do so in the future. You're right that these forums have less active participants than they used to. I hope you help change that, stay engaged, and if someone takes your message in error, remain engaged and attempt to clarify your point.

And if you don't, I understand. But, again, thank you for speaking your mind. :)
 
Dismissive, oppressive, and true. All too often people being offensive get away with dictating to the target of their derision what they should and shouldn't be offended by, simply by virtue of outnumbering the target.
 
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