[.11] Remove required packet colors?

I agree that arrow tracking isn't great in the system as is, and wouldn't mind it going away for overall enjoyment. It would just give me a lot less to do as a smith. BUT if it improves everyone elses enjoyment? I'm personally all for it, after all, I'm the one who chose to be a master smith.

Now, let me make whetstones that can increase damage (ala critical attacks) for 10 minutes, or something else that is consumable that people actually would want and can afford even better.

As far as packet colors. I can definitely see some refinement of the system. On the OOG level, it can certainly be frustrating to try and track the correct colors of everything you can use, but on the IG level (as mentioned by others), channeling magical energy in your hands, is very different than having a fist full of alchemy/trap globes, vs having a quiver of arrows. Everything else excepted, since bows do actually require bows, I think having only alchemy/traps be a specific color might be beneficial, without adding in way more complex rules of specific colors for everything. But with the difference of Alchemy vs everything else, I DO thing those should remain separate.
 

Alavatar

Baron
Hey Colorblind folks.... any of you interested in DMing me for some brainstorming on what colors work for you/you can actually see well? I know there are various types of colorblindness depending on what cones you're missing/have limited functioning (blah blah science)... but now I'm really curious.
One of two things needs to happen in order for Colorblind people to actually, materially, be able to use color as a sorting mechanism:

Either:

1.) Allow only Black, White, Red, Yellow, and Blue colors for packets. All other packet colors are not allowed. Only solid colors, no patterns. Colorblind people can generally tell the difference between primary colors, and everyone can tell the difference between black and white. Grey has the potential to be interpreted especially for monochromatic colorblind people, so even that one is out (I have accidentally thought a grey was pink or vice versa, and I am only red/green colorblind). Some shades of Orange can be seen as Red to some colorblind people which is why I did not list it. You could do Blue for Arrows, Yellow for Alchemy, White for Magic/Spell/Elemental/etc., and still have Black and Red in case new packet delivery options get created.

-OR-

2) Completely eliminate the color-coding requirement. Let people use whatever they want and solely depend on the verbal of what is being thrown. People already do this in night fights with poor lighting.

Anything in-between those two options will still create confusion for the colorblind. The alternative is to just make color a strong cultural suggestion, not a hard-fast rule that can card a player; that would give the colorblind the leeway/forgiveness in case they use the wrong color (purple instead of blue, green instead of orange, etc.).

I recommend the blacksmithing discussion be split into it's own topic.
 

Krystina F

Artisan
Oregon Staff
One of two things needs to happen in order for Colorblind people to actually, materially, be able to use color as a sorting mechanism:

Either:

1.) Allow only Black, White, Red, Yellow, and Blue colors for packets. All other packet colors are not allowed. Only solid colors, no patterns. Colorblind people can generally tell the difference between primary colors, and everyone can tell the difference between black and white. Grey has the potential to be interpreted especially for monochromatic colorblind people, so even that one is out (I have accidentally thought a grey was pink or vice versa, and I am only red/green colorblind). Some shades of Orange can be seen as Red to some colorblind people which is why I did not list it. You could do Blue for Arrows, Yellow for Alchemy, White for Magic/Spell/Elemental/etc., and still have Black and Red in case new packet delivery options get created.

-OR-

2) Completely eliminate the color-coding requirement. Let people use whatever they want and solely depend on the verbal of what is being thrown. People already do this in night fights with poor lighting.

Anything in-between those two options will still create confusion for the colorblind. The alternative is to just make color a strong cultural suggestion, not a hard-fast rule that can card a player; that would give the colorblind the leeway/forgiveness in case they use the wrong color (purple instead of blue, green instead of orange, etc.).

I recommend the blacksmithing discussion be split into it's own topic.

I've been pondering this - I couldn't sleep last night. Yay heartburn. I really like the no patterns, that's always bothered me, because depending on the pattern, is it too blue? Is it too orange? Or not enough? Is my blue more purple than their blue? ---But at the same time, I get picking up cool patterns on sale or goodwill for mega cheap. --- I think trying to aim for a more heavily solid or always solid color packet in game would be a fairly easy thing for us to do and not be terribly difficult on finances for folks. It makes things more consistent, and easier on the colorblind folks and just on everyone else I think. In the dark/poor lighting color recognition would be slightly better for those of us that aren't colorblind if we aren't messing with funky patterns.

I think Seth's options for colors, the primary (swapping yellow out for orange) colors could work really well for our system, and as he mentioned, leaves us with two other colors, red and black for future use if we decided we needed them.

I don't know, I'm just rambling at this point. I'm trying to avoid working. But I think shifting away from orange could be a thing.
 

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
I’m okay with switching to a primary color system if it helps fellow players.
 

Manflesh

Artisan
As a colorblind person, I have no struggle with the current color spread. Mainly because there's no yellow or red to clash with orange. So white, orange, and blue don't stress me out as long as they aren't a crazy out there hue. That said, some chapters let spell packets be any design/color personalized for the character (outside of orange and blue) and that can get confusing.
 

PirateFox

Scholar
[edited: not worth the reply]
 

Alavatar

Baron
As a colorblind person, I have no struggle with the current color spread. Mainly because there's no yellow or red to clash with orange. So white, orange, and blue don't stress me out as long as they aren't a crazy out there hue. That said, some chapters let spell packets be any design/color personalized for the character (outside of orange and blue) and that can get confusing.
If packets were limited to only blue, orange, and white, that would suffice.
 

Manflesh

Artisan
Wait, is white not the standardize color for spell packets in the book?
 

tieran

Duke
Gettysburg Staff
Marshal
Wait, is white not the standardize color for spell packets in the book?
White is the typical color, but there is no standard other than “neither blue nor orange” for spell packets.
 

Mark of Chaos

Artisan
Denver Staff
Page 99:
The spell packet may be of any color ex-
cept orange or blue. (Orange packets are used to represent alchemical gas globes and blue packets are for arrows and bolts.)
You may want to personalize your spell
packets in some way by using a distinctive cloth or writing on the packets. This is a good way to make sure you can get your packets back after a battle without arguing with other spellcasters about whose packets are whose.
Spell packets are visible in-game as an
opaque colored aura of energy only when held in the hand. In-game they are visible but they do not produce any light. They are not in-game items and cannot be stolen, disarmed or re-moved.
 

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
I know of this guy who uses raccoon packets in Seattle... >.>
 

Mark of Chaos

Artisan
Denver Staff
If the tags have an expiration date on items that do not expire, then it’s either an LCO thing or that chapter has incorrect tags that should be corrected (especially as that would affect treasure policy).
Color discussion has gone well, and I'm a glutton for punishment, so here goes.

As the new head of logistics in Denver and person in charge of making these tags now, I have had a couple players ask if this policy would be continuing. I would love to be able to present something to my owner about this. Is there a place in the rulebook or other official documentation on how to Alliance that addresses production item durations?

We can make a new thread if this is going to get long and in depth.
 

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
Color discussion has gone well, and I'm a glutton for punishment, so here goes.

As the new head of logistics in Denver and person in charge of making these tags now, I have had a couple players ask if this policy would be continuing. I would love to be able to present something to my owner about this. Is there a place in the rulebook or other official documentation on how to Alliance that addresses production item durations?

We can make a new thread if this is going to get long and in depth.
Everything that has a duration has a noted duration. Spells, rituals, high magic abilities, components, et cetera. Production doesn’t have a duration limit because they’re effectively “until used.”

The assumption of a duration would be really weird, because every duration in the game is clearly defined (even “line of sight”).

Heck, there are people in Seattle who have items from looooooong ago, and I think they’re basically collector’s items at this point.
 

Mark of Chaos

Artisan
Denver Staff
Everything that has a duration has a noted duration. Spells, rituals, high magic abilities, components, et cetera. Production doesn’t have a duration limit because they’re effectively “until used.”

The assumption of a duration would be really weird, because every duration in the game is clearly defined (even “line of sight”).

Heck, there are people in Seattle who have items from looooooong ago, and I think they’re basically collector’s items at this point.
So, here's what I've pulled so far that kinda points at what piratefox was getting at.
-Production item durations are not explicitly defined.
-Everything else has durations explicitly defined, including permanent and until use items and spells.
-The official tags issued to new chapters for at least some of these undefined duration items have an expiration field.
-Because its not defined somewhere chapters have made the decision to use a very player friendly interpretation

Im not saying I agree or disagree, just that its not so clear cut as people are saying.
 

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
When things aren’t clear cut, we have resources for that; either the Marshal forum or the ARC forum (the latter of which is probably better for this).

My question for you would be....when no clear interpretation existed, why weren’t those resources used?
 
To go back to the original point of this post, I would love to see packet colors go away. In many years of NERO and Alliance, I have never once even noticed the color of a packet that hit me, let alone been able to use that as a judgement for what sort of an effect I should take. Throw in the fact that colors stop existing at night (when more than half of fights take place for me), and it becomes a raw annoyance rather than anything useful or thematic. Further mix in the fact that I have trouble telling blue from purple and it's just a mess.

I'd love it if packets were just packets.
 

markusdark

Knight
I suppose the question is why were colors put forth in the first place and is that reason still a valid one? To me, the only thing I could see is to define what type of cauliflower hand the person was holding so that you could tell if they were casters or alchemists. Also (unless I have the rules wrong), you can steal an alchemy globe and thereby steal the alchemical gas; it would be important to be able to denote what is an alchemy globe in the game.

I don't know if blue is necessary as the bow would be a good indicator that they're probably carrying arrows.
 

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
I suppose the question is why were colors put forth in the first place and is that reason still a valid one? To me, the only thing I could see is to define what type of cauliflower hand the person was holding so that you could tell if they were casters or alchemists. Also (unless I have the rules wrong), you can steal an alchemy globe and thereby steal the alchemical gas; it would be important to be able to denote what is an alchemy globe in the game.

I don't know if blue is necessary as the bow would be a good indicator that they're probably carrying arrows.
Blue is always arrows for PCs....

But not necessarily NPCs.

That’s why I think colors have value, though I’m happy to change what colors are used for individuals that need it.
 
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