[.11] Seattle | November 9-11 | Thoughts and musings

Muir

Fighter
Interesting. Cultural difference, I'd assume. I don't really expect to see it here, as I can count the number of traps I've seen in the last few years on one hand. Hopefully that's going to change. :)
 

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
Let me put it to you this way.

Trap Avoidance was -so popular- that Zeth was actually teased for being one of the few people who didn’t have it at the event.
 

Alkalin3

Administrator
Chief Technology Officer
South Michigan Staff
Marshal
as I can count the number of traps I've seen in the last few years on one hand. Hopefully that's going to change. :)
Exactly. It's already a lot to do for plot teams. This further hurts the want of plot teams to go through the setup. Traps are great as a plot device, and we still don't see a ton of them at the chapters in the midwest. I can't think of a single instance of a trap being set in TC or Somi.
 

Muir

Fighter
I think a lot of the reason they're so rare in the midwest, from the player side, is simply that they dont do enough to be worth their cost right now. The enemies you'd want to hit with them to make the coin expenditure worthwhile aren't going to be meaningfully hurt by them.
 

Cedric

Rogue
Marshal
I think you could also make trap avoidance an ever but it with 1-3 charges on it. That way if your thief fucks up the trap you can save yourself but there is a cost. Sure to start there might be a lot of them, because of the transition but eventually they’ll go away.
 

PirateFox

Scholar
Exactly. It's already a lot to do for plot teams. This further hurts the want of plot teams to go through the setup. Traps are great as a plot device, and we still don't see a ton of them at the chapters in the midwest. I can't think of a single instance of a trap being set in TC or Somi.
I set 3 while I was out there last time, but I was being paranoid. :D
 
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Mulgrum

Newbie
I set 3 while I was out there last time, but I was being paranoid. :D
It's not paranoia if they really are trying to get you.
I think you could also make trap avoidance an ever but it with 1-3 charges on it. That way if your thief fucks up the trap you can save yourself but there is a cost. Sure to start there might be a lot of them, because of the transition but eventually they’ll go away.
This is probably the best implementation of it that doesn't require an outside skill. As part of a team that both faces and uses traps regularly I like the idea of a small safety net, but I strongly dislike it being a once/day for however long. It kind of kills the thrill a little bit.
 

Tantarus

Squire
I think tying it to evade seems reasonable. Makes it easy for rogues, rogue/hybrids and hoblings who have create trap as a racial.
 

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
I think tying it to evade seems reasonable. Makes it easy for rogues, rogue/hybrids and hoblings who have create trap as a racial.
The more useful we make Evade, the more powerful we make Racial Evade. I’m okay with tying it to non-racial Evade, but if Racially Evade powers it, it only makes Hoblings and Kyn that much better.
 

Tantarus

Squire
The more useful we make Evade, the more powerful we make Racial Evade. I’m okay with tying it to non-racial Evade, but if Racially Evade powers it, it only makes Hoblings and Kyn that much better.
Again that is fine for hoblings and on flavor, we have create trap as a racial too. And scavenger make up makes me feel okay about that too. At 6 build evade is the most costly racial, even more then resist spell. It should be good.
 

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
You are incredibly biased here, buddy.
 

Tantarus

Squire
You are incredibly biased here, buddy.
Too be fair, I can argue the same about you after the trap incident at the play test.

But I am being serious, hoblings are stereotyped as being trap users, it makes since their racial would be tied to the ritual that lets you avoid traps. A skill that rogues and rogue hybrids can get pretty easily.
 

Cedric

Rogue
Marshal
I still think that makes rogues too easy to get out of traps. I think ever is a better suggestion, it means good prepared rogues/adventurers can have them, but not everyone. If it's tied to evade (which isn't a horrible idea) every rogue is still going to be basically invincible to traps. They are already not used in enough chapters (Denver is the only chapter I've regularly seen traps in), I think we want to promote their use.
 

Tantarus

Squire
I think the counter argument is when they are used, very few PCs can interact with them. Making them not super fun for over 90% of the player base. This would give more players a way deal with them. Also with room wide traps it is alot harder to avoid in some situations.

Honestly I dont mind most traps except explosive, losing all your coin and potions feels really bad. Which is the whole reason I had trap avoidance at the game day. I have lost many a 1 shot, gold, potions over the years to traps.
 

Draven

Count
Seattle Staff
Marshal
Too be fair, I can argue the same about you after the trap incident at the play test.
.
Pfffft. That’s not even comparable. I’m arguing for traps to actually remain viable and not cheaply avoided by an easy ritual. You realize that by playing a character with Racial Evade, a staff member with plenty of GS, and a small amount of Dragon Stamps, it’s way more to my benefit to let Trap Avoidance be as powerful as it currently is or to tie it to Evade, right?

But I recognize that the ritual is way unfair to the use of traps, so I argue for TA to get a nerf. If I’m biased, I’m doing it wrong. ;)
 

Tantarus

Squire
I am arguing for it to get nerfed too, just in a way that that makes it accessable to trap classes and races.
 

Muir

Fighter
I still think that makes rogues too easy to get out of traps. I think ever is a better suggestion, it means good prepared rogues/adventurers can have them, but not everyone. If it's tied to evade (which isn't a horrible idea) every rogue is still going to be basically invincible to traps. They are already not used in enough chapters (Denver is the only chapter I've regularly seen traps in), I think we want to promote their use.
That seems right in line with the 'be all you can't be' philosophy. Rogues as a class thematically should have an answer to traps based on build, for those folks who want to play them but aren't terribly dextrous.

Honestly, if I were designing it from scratch, it would be an ability to let a Rogue treat a trap they set off as if they had disarmed it, but at the very least them not being hurt by it is something.
 

Shades

Newbie
I think the counter argument is when they are used, very few PCs can interact with them. Making them not super fun for over 90% of the player base. This would give more players a way deal with them. Also with room wide traps it is alot harder to avoid in some situations.

Honestly I don't mind most traps except explosive, losing all your coin and potions feels really bad. Which is the whole reason I had trap avoidance at the game day. I have lost many a 1 shot, gold, potions over the years to traps.
I think this is a big part of the problem with traps. The whole room explodes, and we only care because all of our stuff got blown up, not because it could kill us.

I think the counter argument is when they are used, very few PCs can interact with them. Making them not super fun for over 90% of the player base. This would give more players a way deal with them. Also with room wide traps it is a lot harder to avoid in some situations.

Honestly I dont mind most traps except explosive, losing all your coin and potions feels really bad. Which is the whole reason I had trap avoidance at the game day. I have lost many a 1 shot, gold, potions over the years to traps.
I am pretty sure that I am the reason that we are talking about this. We saw a trap, and since no one could disarm it, and I had trap avoidance, I went for it. It made me feel really good to have prepared anmagic item for just this situation, and then get to use it. But it still required effort to pick up the loot around the trap before the trap went off, and we lost out on a bit of it because of it.
That seems right in line with the 'be all you can't be' philosophy. Rogues as a class thematically should have an answer to traps based on build, for those folks who want to play them but aren't terribly dextrous.

Honestly, if I were designing it from scratch, it would be an ability to let a Rogue treat a trap they set off as if they had disarmed it, but at the very least them not being hurt by it is something.
Rogues have this in every D&D game I have seen. Something to help them disable the traps, and take less damage when they go off. Frankly the ability to dive out of the way of a trap going off seems to fit rogues to a T.
It seems a bit weird that to disarm traps, you are supposed to have:
1) The tools to do so.
2) The in game ability to do so.
3) The real life ability to do so.
All for something that will only come up maybe 5 times across a whole weekend for the entire player base.
I mean, we put in a huge number of weapon strikes to allow people to replace an out of game fighting ability with a skill bought ability.
 

Cedric

Rogue
Marshal
While we have more than 5 times per game where lockpicking/trap use is used, I see your point Shades. I think also maybe we are focusing on a symptom but not the core issue. Plot doesn't setup a lot of traps because it takes time/skill/effort. What about finding new types of traps that we could add to the game that are easier to setup? Give more options for plot teams. Other LARPs do traps/locks in various ways, let's steal those good ideas.
 
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